Member Training – Godly Submission to Government

Member training from June 23rd, 2025.

This week, we covered when we should engage in godly submission to government, avoiding the false dichotomies of being a statist who obeys everything or an anarchist who breaks every law simply because it exists. The standard for obedience isn’t just whether a law is constitutional or an official was legitimately elected, because even those can be used for evil. Rather, as we learn from Romans 13 and the examples of righteous and wicked kings in the scriptures, we are to obey when rulers act as true “ministers of God to thee for good”—meaning they are servants of the people who are a terror to evil works, not to good ones.

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TRANSCRIPT

Father in heaven, we thank you for these opportunities to better ourselves, to serve you better, Lord, in standing for righteousness. We do remember what you said on the summit of the Mount in the Beatitudes when you said that you will bless us if we thirst and hunger for righteousness. So let us today strengthen ourselves and our efforts to do just that, serve the cause of righteousness for mankind. We ask you a blessing on this meeting today and our speaker and all that participate in it. And may we become better children of yours in doing so. I pray this prayer in Jesus' name. Amen.

I am very grateful for the response. I've got a lot of people getting physical copies of the manual, which is fantastic. I'm hoping those that haven't gotten physical copies are reading the digital version of it and going through it as I send out the emails, kind of reminders and overviews of different sections.

And as we do it in training, it's something that I really want to be a part of. the uh the lexicon and just the understanding of all the members so um so that this week i want to cover conspiracy and i want to remember remind everyone that it's not about just knowing the most recent gossip right this isn't info junkie ism where we're just here to learn the latest and greatest news and then move on and be like oh i already knew that and not care about it it's important that we take all of the information and use it for action to go along with it We must understand the conspiracy so that we don't fall for their traps to get us to be ineffective. Also, that we don't support their agents and end up using our time and money building up Satan's kingdom. And also the conspiracy is monolithic. We're not facing a bunch of conspiracies. We're facing one conspiracy with many tentacles.

And they appear as several, you know, many different... separate evil movements but they're not and that's important for us to understand that most of those though involved in the different tentacles have no clue that it's connected to the rest of that beast um that is affecting other aspects of the conspiracy and so um as you know tyrants in the past have talked about uh they have a lots of they have use for lots of useful idiots that don't know what's going on and so and the same thing we talked about with the illuminati and how they have the neophytes and how they don't know about the levels above them. And so even though it is one conspiracy, that doesn't mean everybody involved with it knows about the other aspects of the conspiracy. But it's important for us to understand that connection. Yes, Mark.

Most important way I could tell it's one conspiracy is the modus operandi. It's the same agenda, same strategy, same disinformation tactics. So logic says you're absolutely right. One massive, huge conspiracy. Thanks. Okay, so the conspiracy seeks to implement Satan's program in full. So it's not just one thing that they're doing. It's not just immorality. It's not just the global government. Right. All these different aspects that we've talked about regularly, that it's the answer is yes, they are engaged in all of those things. So why do we call it a conspiracy? There was a book published back in the seventies called None Dare Call It Conspiracy that I recommend people read because it goes over the fact that people don't want to call it that. People will say, well, we're more effective if we don't use that word.

And we just talk about the principles of what the founding fathers are for. But if we don't talk about the conspiracy, then we actually help the conspiracy because that's what it is. So we call it a conspiracy because it's a conspiracy. And when we don't identify the conspiracy for what it is, we give those involved in the conspiracy cover. We just, if we don't call the conspiracy, then it makes it, we perpetuate the lie that all of these things are happening by accident. We have the accidental or coincidental theory of history. That we just have a bunch of morons running around not knowing what's going on. And we just happen to coincidentally just keep on increasing tyranny. And that's what we perpetuate. We help people believe, continue to believe that these things are just by accident. And if this Satanist just has one more piece of information, then he'll do the right thing. And so we don't want to give bad guys cover. We have to help people understand who they are. And we have to understand that our liberties are being destroyed on purpose. and by whom helps us to remove distractions and false solutions, increasing our effectiveness. When we call it a conspiracy, we really lay out and we understand who the conspirators are.

We will say, oh, look at what they're trying to promote as a solution or what the big problem is. And we'll say, oh, okay, now we know that that is a distraction and we will avoid it. It also provides us the ability to engage in effective solutions ourself, not just to avoid false solutions. but to make sure that we are focused on the things that actually work and are tested throughout the eons of time. And if we don't call it a conspiracy, we are actually aiding the enemy. As I said before, we're giving them, it's not just giving them, we are giving them cover, but we're also making it so that people don't understand what it is that they're facing. And when they don't understand what they're facing, then they are at a disadvantage, which gives the conspiracy the advantage. And so it is essential that we do call it a conspiracy, that we're not afraid to call it a conspiracy. And if we understand the conspiracy, then we will be able to defend that position and help others be able to be willing to call it a conspiracy as well. So those in power are illegitimate in every sense of the word.

But the masses accept their edicts in the form of laws and regulations because the people believe that the conspirators are legitimately in office. or at least that they can be replaced in legitimate elections okay so by exposing the conspiracy and conspirators we delegitimize them in the minds of others so because no moral person is going to obey someone involved in these satanic efforts except under threat of violence and we delegitimize conspirators by exposing them and who they are as well as helping people understand what makes someone legitimate As we read in Killing No Murder, a politician that has stolen an election or violates his oath is not a ruler, but an invader. And so do we obey invaders or do we repel them? That's a part of the importance of understanding the conspiracy is our solution. So effective exposure of the conspiracy starts with our own understanding. And so I encourage everyone to... to read books that will help you understand who the conspirators are and how they operate and what their goals are. Here are just, if you start off with these ones, you'll be ahead of 99.9% of the population. First one I mentioned a minute ago, None Dare Call It Conspiracy. Shadows of Power was mentioned earlier as well.

Memoirs illustrating the history of Jacobinism. We did a book club of that and encourage you to read it and to go back and even listen to the discussion we had. in the book club also published around the same time is proofs of a conspiracy by john robeson and then of course uh reading invasion and distributing that that's a great way to help uh growth as well is um getting our a copy of our book out to more people. They'll understand the conspiracy. You'll understand the conspiracy and you'll help the organization grow by getting the book distributed out to more individuals. So encourage everyone to this week that you read through the conspiracy section of the member manual and that you write down questions that you have, write down thoughts and ideas that you have to be able to implement this part of the member manual. So we'll get into training right now. We've talked a lot about the idea of nullification and just mentioned here with the conspiracy section that those in government are illegitimate. But is there a time when we are engaged in godly submission to government, that we do what government says, that we obey the government? And so that's an important thing for us to understand as we build understanding and adherence. to the principles that have built free nations. And then we expose the conspiracy and we build an effective resistance to that conspiracy. Can you go back one slide? Yeah. This one? Yes. Okay. Okay. Go ahead. Thank you. Yep. Okay.

So there are false dichotomies regarding the situation, right? We have on one hand, we have statists where they, you know, are going to do whatever they can to promote the idea of worshiping government, of doing whatever the government says, no matter what it is that they say, that we have to supposedly obey all government edicts, all government regulations, all mandates, and they will turn anybody in that refuses because they are traitors and insurrectionists and that they just have to obey the government no matter what and get others to do the same thing. But on the other side, we also have this idea of, you know, no matter what the government says, I'm not going to listen, right? You're not the boss of me. I'm going to do donuts on I-15 and I'm going to break everybody's window and I'm going to cause problems because if there's a law against it, you can't tell me what to do. I'm going to break it, right? So obviously both of these are false.

So when we, in the Tree of Liberty Society, we are not anarchists in the sense that we see there. We are not anti-godly government. We believe that there is a form of legitimate government and that no government is just as evil as total government. And so it's important for us to not fall into these false dichotomies. And so I want to address that, right? And as I say this, I'm not saying that, you know, by saying that I'm against lawlessness. That doesn't mean, of course, that I'm a statist. We've talked regularly about nullification and how righteous it is. John Taylor said when he was asked about his ignoring the laws of the so-called laws of the land, they asked him, he said, do you profess to ignore the laws of the land? He says, no, not unless they are unconstitutional. Then I would do it all the time. So he's saying right there that if a law is constitutional, he believes in obeying it. But if it's not, then of course he's going to disobey it. Thomas Jefferson talks about nullification and that it is the rightful remedy to when the government violates the law. So when are we obligated to obey the government?

That's the question, right? If we don't believe in lawlessness, but we also don't believe in absolute submission to government, is there some kind of a rule or principle or standard? that we can have in our mind to say, okay, yeah, I need to submit to government or no, this is wrong and I'm not going to submit to it. So do we obey government, right? When we're like, okay, the election was legitimate and so whatever results from that, I have to obey. Is that the standard that we follow or when the law is constitutional, right? So of course we go back to when elections are legitimate. No, just because Somebody is legitimately put into office. What if they are legitimately voted on and they then pass a law that says they get to kidnap your children and sacrifice them to Moloch? No, that's not. No, we don't obey government at that point. Right.

How about when a law is constitutional? Well, they pass an amendment to the Constitution that says that they can do that example I just gave. These are, of course, extreme examples because I want to avoid, you know, I want to stick to the point. Just because they pass an amendment to the Constitution saying they can do something evil does not mean we have to obey it. And how about when my religious leader tells me that I have to obey the government? Do we do it then? What if your religious leader tells you to do something evil? There has to be a standard. And following, these aren't standards. These are changeable and they are circumstantial. And so there has to be something that we can know when we are duty bound by God to obey the government. And when we are duty bound by God to say, you know what, just like Daniel, we're going to say no, and we're going to open the door and open the windows and openly defy what the government does.

Okay. Or some, you know, or what's the circumstance where we say, you know what, I might not personally like that, but it is, it is my job to submit to it because it is a legitimate request from the government whether i like it or not because we because at the same time just like these three examples right there are not standards they are changeable and they are not something they can depend on when if we just say oh i don't like it then that's just as unprincipled because now we're just saying oh whatever i don't like i'm not going to obey okay So we need to be principled. So when do we obey government? Now, one of the most controversial, and we've done a video on this on Romans 13 and how it is often applied to get people to submit to government no matter what. And so, but really it says when individuals, it actually lays out the principle of when an individual is duty bound to God to obey government. And it says when you're duty-bound to disobey government.

So it's actually the opposite of what people say that it is. So I want to read it real quick, and then we'll get into explaining some key points of it. So verse 1 says, Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers, for there is no power but of God. The powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God. And they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? Do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same. For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid. For he beareth not the sword in vain. For he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

You have individuals that want to promote tyranny and tyrants that will say that this is a blanket, unqualified command to obey everything the government does. In the video I played that we... this topic we played uh talks from different religious leaders saying that it didn't matter if he was a mother murderer or child molester or rapist you had to you know the command was the same you had to do whatever they say now those verses don't say that okay so what does it say what it doesn't mean and the author of the those verses show that it's not an unqualified command to obey the government no matter what Paul says, now when the captain of the temple and the chief priest heard these words, they were plexed about them, wondering what might be going on.

Then someone arrived and announced, look, the men whom you put in prison are standing in the temple and teaching the people. Then the captain went with the temple police and brought them, but without violence, for they were afraid of being stoned by the people. When they had brought them, they had them stand before the council. The high priest questioned them. Saying we gave you strict orders not to teach in this name. Yet here you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching. And you are determined to bring this man's blood on us. So right here we have the people in authority. Saying we told you not to do this. And then pointing out that they disobeyed them. So clearly Paul is not stupid. He's not like oh I you know. I wrote over here that you should do whatever the government says, and here I am disobeying it.

No, absolutely not. Peter, I'm sorry, Peter, and the apostles answered, we must obey God rather than any human authority. Okay, so right here we have one principle. When a human tells you to do something God told you not to do, or vice versa, then we obey God, not the government. That is one standard, one principle. If the two contradict each other, we pick God. It should be pretty simple. We don't say, oh, no, sorry, Congress passed a law, God. I've got to fear man more than God. Yes, Joyce? Okay, now I found the mute button. I just shared a link in the discussion from this guy. He does a presentation in it. He exposes a translation from some German, ancient German, that verse 4 where it says, For he is the minister of God to thee for good. The he is actually she, the office. We're going to get right into that in a second for sure.

There you go. But anyways, it's confirming what you said. Awesome. Thank you. Great. All righty. So we have here, when do we obey government? We go back to Romans 13, right? and we have those examples so um the word translated minister in verse four is actually translated closer to servant so that's an important thing to so he's a servant he's not just there he's he is which tells you he's there to serve okay and a more accurate translation would be a painful and laborious service like those that by hard travel raise the dust with their feet The same Greek word is used in Romans 16, verse 1. Phoebe, a woman, is called servant of the church at Centuria. I don't know how to pronounce that. Sorry. The women are said to minister unto Christ and the company in the house. So those same words are translated in that way.

So it's important for us to look at those translations to be able to see, okay, what's a more accurate way to interpret what actually Paul intended? that he's saying that these people are to be servants okay john well to martha served that is she waited a table in all these places the same word is used and signifies a mean service and indeed the service which this word does properly signify is a service in the dust so it's somebody working hard for you okay that's that's what it's saying that this these people that you are um Serving are to be servants. That you are to be obeying are servants to you. Okay? So that word imports a painful and humble service. Those people that we are told to submit to are to be in painful and humble service to us. Okay? Now we go to the word in verse 6 translates to ministers.

Oh, wait. Oh, no. Yeah, that's... Should we translate public servants? It's derived from... and opus public workmen or servants again they are to be servants and workers for us the magistrate hath his name not from idleness but painfulness painful service the word is sometimes applied to mean service as in samuel and it's applied to um thank you moses epaphroditus a messenger that carried the church's relief to paul so whom is the magistrate servant Okay, we go to verse one and four tells us he's a servant of God. Paul doesn't say he's a servant of God for thy good. Paul makes it plain that he is a servant to the people and that he is a servant of God to thee for good, thereby most excellently representing not only the end of magistrates in those words for good. The magistrate is a servant of God to the people.

So we look at some examples in the scriptures of a righteous king. We see in Samuel chapter 18, It says that in David numbered the people that were with him and set captains of thousands and captains of hundreds over them. And David sent forth a third part of the people under the hand of Job and a Joab and a third part under the hand of Abishai, the son of some other word and Joab's brother and a third part under the hand of the Gittite. And the king said unto the people, I will surely go forth. with you myself also so he didn't send people out he's like you know when we're doing this i'm going with you he's their servant but the people answered thou shalt not go forth for if we flee away they will not care for us neither of half of us die will they care for us but now thou art worth 10 000 of us therefore now it is better that thou sucker us out of the city so the people were like man this is fantastic that you're with us you're You serving us in this way is worth thousands of us.

And the king said to them, what seemeth you best, I will do. And the king stood by the gate side and all the people came out by hundreds and by thousands. So, right. So we have the king here. David is saying that I'm your servant. What you asked me to do, I'm going to do. As opposed to a tyrant who says, you go do what I told you to do. You are not here to demand anything of me. I'm here to demand something of you. So we go to 1 Chronicles 13 for another example of David being righteous, said unto all the congregation of Israel, if it seemed good unto you and that it be of the Lord our God. So we have two principles right there. It has to be good to the people and it has to be good to God. So if it doesn't meet the latter, if the people, as a mob demands something evil that is bad that God condemns then the king can't do it okay but if it serves the people they demand it and it's good to God let us send abroad our brethren everywhere that are left in all the land of Israel and with them also to the priest and Levites which are in their cities and suburbs that they may gather themselves unto us and let us bring again the ark of our God to us for we inquired not at all not at it in the days of Saul And all the congregation said that they would do so for the thing was right in the eyes of all the people.

And it was right in the eyes of God. So those are some examples of when you do, right? And then we have here in 1 Kings 12, the example of a wicked king and what happened to him by a righteous people. And King Robem consulted with the old men, meaning the previous wise men of the king. that stood before Solomon his father while he had lived, and said, How do you advise that I answer this people? And they spake unto him, saying, If thou wilt be a servant unto this people this day, and wilt serve them, and answer them, and speak good works to them, then they will be thy servants forever. So he's saying that if you do this, then they will obey you.

But he forsook the counsel of the old men, which they had given him, and consulted with the young men. that had were grown up with him and which stood before him but he forsook the counsel of the old men which they had given him and consulted with the young men that were grown up with him and he said unto them what counsel give ye that we may answer this people whom he who have spoken to me saying make the yoke which thy father did put upon us lighter so the old school was like hey you know lighten the burden of the people but the young men that were grown up spake saying thou Thus shalt thou speak unto the people that spake unto thee, saying, Thy father made our yoke heavy, but make thou it lighter to us. Thus shalt thou say to them, My little finger shall be thicker than my father's loin.

So I'm going to increase your burdens. And now, whereas my father did lay you with heavy yoke, I will add to your yoke. My father hath chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions. So I will make your chastisements worse. But he forsook the counsel of the old men, which they had. I don't know why that's today. Did that twice. Okay. So what did Israel do in response to that? The king refuses to humble himself before the people just and reasonable request and refuses to act for their good as David once did. Then he forfeits the right to rule them to their harm. Okay. So he was going against the will of the people and he was going against what God said. And so now he has forfeited his right. He is now a tyrant where he has no right to rule. A ruler who will not serve the people's benefit has no claim to lordship. Thus the people rightly rejected Roboam and his oppressive rule and chose another in his place.

The council of the elders was wise and honorable and the scripture remembers it as such. And these were true patriots, defenders of God's law and champions of the people's liberty. in the face of unchecked power and royal overreach they urged the king to know his place and walk humbly to serve sincerely not to flatter with false promises or mask tyranny with smooth words their message was clear if you say you will serve the people then serve them in truth do not pretend that humility fulfill your vow with your life but of course he refused that godly counsel and in doing so he forfeited the loyalty of israel israel no longer had any claim on them okay so so we look at this is the first one we have if the people ask it and it is pleasing to god and the king does that the people are then duty bound to obey okay now the next thing is when god appoints the leaders directly we have here the immediate calling of civil leadership when god by a sovereign authority directly appoints a man to govern and entrust him with divine commission just as he did with moses calling him out of the burning bush to free the people of Israel out of Egypt, right?

And then later on, we have the example of Joshua and Numbers, where the Lord, let the Lord, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation. So God is going to reveal somebody that is going to be in charge, which may go out before them and which may go in before them and which may lead them out and which may bring them in. that the congregation of the Lord be not as sheep, which have no shepherd. And the Lord said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua, the son of Nun, a man in whom is the Spirit, and lay thine hand upon him, and set him before Eleazar the priest, and before all the congregation, and give him a charge in their sight.

So this man was called by God, and then he was set apart in front of everybody. Everybody knew who he was, and that he was set apart to be in charge over everyone. Thou shall put some of thine honor upon him, meaning Moses showing that, okay, what everybody, the honor that was placed upon Moses is now going to Joshua, that all the children of Israel may be obedient. So he's giving them the charge. God is giving the people of Israel the charge to be obedient to this leader because he is legitimate, because he is chosen by God. Okay. So, but of course, but within those bounds. So just because you're chosen by God. Doesn't mean we have other examples where these people that were chosen by God, but then later on became wicked, lost their authority. So as long as they are servants to God, as Romans 13 says, then they remain legitimately in their position. And we are legitimately to obey them because they are being a terror to evil. as Romans 13 says, right?

A terror to those that do evil. So when a magistrate rightly strikes fear into those who do evil and honors those who do good, he becomes a true servant for the people's good and should be obeyed. In fulfilling this sacred duty, he reflects the justice of God who renders to each person according to their deeds. So we note in this, a magistrate who lacks the virtues or neglects the duties by which true rulers reflect. the character of god is more like more rightly likened to the devil than to god because he mirrors the adversary more than the almighty because he is implementing the adversary's plan instead of implementing god's plan so some people argue that great power and public splendor cause even an unrighteous magistrate to resemble god but that's false for god possesses no unjust or oppressive power nor does he bestow such authority upon rulers The tyrant's might bears no resemblance to the righteous authority of the most just and holy Lord, which is pretty self-evident. Outward glory is not a true reflection of God's majesty. It's like a counterfeit.

The glory of the Lord is found in his wisdom, justice, faithfulness, and the works of mercy and righteousness that he performs. In contrast, the external pomp and influence of an unrighteous ruler reflect nothing of divine character. Rather, they align more closely with the pride and power of the devil, whose servant he becomes doing his works, which means, in consequence, the people have no duty to obey him. So we are to submit to the governing authorities. When God calls them directly, or when God hasn't chosen anyone, they are chosen legitimately by the people, okay? And... when they are servants of God and the people, when they are a terror to those that do evil and not a terror to those that do good. So you have to do both. You can't have one without the other, otherwise you're illegitimate, right?

So this is a quick overview and I had to speed through to get done within the hour, but we will be revisiting this because I think it's very important for us to understand the principles that we covered tonight. to show that um when it is ourselves when when do we that we're not just a law unto ourselves but we are actually submitting righteously to a righteous government if a righteous government exists right and that we're not just doing things because we are serving ourselves but because we are serving god and we are finding a ruler that is a servant of the people and a servant of god and is a glory to god by making sure that he is following God's will and not the will of the mob and not the will of the devil. So if you have any questions or comments, we can talk about that after we have the prayer. But let's go ahead and close up and then we can get into open forum. And I'm going to ask Samuel, if you'll say the closing prayer for us.

Our Father in heaven, we are truly grateful for the instructions that we have been given this night. We ask that you would impress these things upon our hearts and minds, that we may apply them to our lives, to understand and to be able to teach them to others, to help others find the way, to understand correct principle in those that are placed over us and lead us, that we may know when we are led and directed properly, even upon the principles of righteousness. We ask for thy spirit to guide and direct us, to inspire our hearts and minds. We are grateful for the labours of Ben and all those who labour to bring these things to our attention and ask for thy blessings to be upon them, to strengthen them in these labours. Please watch over, bless and preserve us this night. We ask in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ. Amen.