Member Training – Creating A Moral People, Starting With Us

Member training from March 17th, 2025. In this meeting, Moses covers the vital link to morality and liberty, what is morality and our role in promoting it. 

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TRANSCRIPT

Father in heaven, we're grateful to be here tonight. We're grateful for the abundance of thy mercy to see fit that we can know what's really going on in the world and increase in our knowledge of our callings and purpose, each one of us and as a society. And we pray tonight that thou will bless this meeting to be uplifting and edifying and for us to get an even more clearer idea of what you would have each one of us do. And we pray a blessing on Ben and all who work with him in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Thank you. All righty. Carmen, are you ready for the minutes? So we're going to focus on creating more people starting with us. And I couldn't find the quote, but I wanted to add, I think it was Joseph Smith that said, you need to start with the spirit of God in yourself. Then you go to your family and then your community and then your city and to the whole earth. Uh, that was, um, uh, Wells. Uh, Daniel H. Wells. Oh.

So, um, our purpose in the Tree of Liberty is to build an understanding of the principles that have built free nations, expose the satanic conspiracy, and build an effective resistance to that conspiracy. Um, uh, John VI Catech, Catechizenos, I think that's how it's pronounced, um, said, uh, was around during the High Roman Empire. There is nothing more conducive to the destruction of a nation, whether it be republic or monarchy, than the lack of men of wisdom and intellect. When a republic has many citizens or a monarchy many ministers of high quality, it quickly recovers from those losses that are brought about by misfortune. When such men are lacking, it falls into the very depths of disgrace. that is why i deplore the present state of the holy roman empire which having produced so much excellent men in the past has now been reduced to such a level of sterility that today's governors possess nothing to elevate them above those whom they govern so even back then he realized that you can't have a working nation if the people are unvirtuous and these are certain principles that i've selected for covering tonight starting with no regard for those who disobeyed the law that being God's law which is the law um in Joe Smith papers for the minutes of the council of 50 page 113 they had a revelation from God I am the Lord thy God ruling the armies of heaven above and among the nations of the earth beneath I have created all men of one blood I set up one and I put down another And to me alone belongs the right, the power, the majesty, the glory, and the dominion. I alone am king of kings and lord of lords.

I alone am the rightful lawgiver to man. I alone have a right to judge the inhabitants of the earth, which is my footstool. I will acknowledge no other law, rule, power, authority, or dominion than that which is instituted by me, the great I am, and no other government, kingdom, dominion, authority, power, rule, or law. shall be acknowledged by my people so if we're going to be called the people of god we will not recognize anything that does not recognize him and we have examples of this with the ancient prophets daniel he when he heard about the um what's it called the request law by the king statute the king passed a statute that said you could not pray to or worship any other god besides or you could not worship anyone besides the king and then when daniel knew that this writing was signed he went into his house and his windows being opened in his chamber toward jerusalem he kneeled upon his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his god as he did after time so he just he did not care he did not acknowledge it at all and then yes uh Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, and... Sorry. You're good.

Nebuchadnezzar was told that they were not worshipping his golden images, and he went and inquired them about it, and they replied, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thy hand, O king. But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship thy golden image, which thou hast set up. So they said, but, sorry, they said they didn't know if they would be saved, but they did not care, because they would not follow that immoral commandment from the king. And I think it was the same with Daniel, too. He did not know whether he would be saved, but he disobeyed anyways. But I wanted to go over some other examples of others not being saved.

First, I want to lay down some background. So in D&C 91, Joseph asked about the correction of the translation in the Apocrypha, which are a selection of books that the Protestants didn't count as canonical. so joseph inquired of the lord about it while he was translating the bible and he got this revelation verily thus saith the lord unto you concerning the apocrypha there are many things contained therein that are true that are true and there are many things contained therein that are not true which are interpolations by the hands of men whoso readeth it let him understand for the spirit manifesteth truth and whoso is enlightened by the spirit shall obtain benefit therefrom and whoso receiveth not by the spirit cannot be benefited So I'd like to go to 2 Maccabees, chapter 7. Then the king, being in a rage, commanded pans and cauldrons to be made hot, which forthwith being heated, he commanded to cut out the tongue of him that spake first, and to cut off the utmost parts of his body, the rest of his brethren and his mother looking on. Now when he was thus maimed in all his members, he commanded him being yet alive to be brought to the fire and to be fried in the pan. So when the first was dead after this number, they brought the second to make him a mockingstock.

And when they had pulled off the skin of his head with the hair, they asked him, Wilt thou eat before thou be punished throughout every member of thy body? But he answered in his own language and said, No, wherefore he also received the next torment. And when he was at his last gasp, he said, Thou like a fury takest us out of this present life, that the king of the world shall raise us up who have died for his laws unto everlasting life. After him was the third maid of Mockingstock, and when he was required he put out his tongue, and that right soon holding forth his hands manfully and said courageously, These I had from heaven, and for his laws I despised them, and from him I hoped to receive them again, insomuch that the king and they that were with him marveled at the young man's courage, for that he nothing regarded his pains. So he cut out his own tongue, and then he held out his hands for them to cut off. Now when this man was dead also, they tormented and mingled the fourth in the like manner. So when he was ready to die, he said thus, It is good being put to death by men to look for hope from God to be raised again by him. As for thee, thou shalt have no resurrection to life. Afterward they brought the fifth also and mingled him.

Then looked he unto the king and said, Thou hast power over men, thou art corruptible. Thou doest what thou wilt, yet think not that our nation is forsaken of God. But abide a while, and behold his great power, how he will torment thee and thy seed. After him also they brought the sixth, who, being ready to die, said, Be not deceived without cause, for we suffer these things for ourselves, having sinned against our God. Therefore marvelous things are done unto us. But think not thou that takest in hand to strive against God, that thou shalt escape unpunished. Now Antiochus, whilst the youngest was yet alive, did not only exhort him by words but also assured him with oaths that he would make him both a rich and a happy man if he would turn from the laws of his fathers and that also he would take him for his friend and trust him with affairs when the young man would of no cause hearken unto him the king called his mother and exhorted her that she would counsel the young man to save his life but she spake in our country language on this manner I beseech thee, my son, look upon the heaven and the earth and all that is therein, and consider that God made them.

Fear not this tormentor, but being worthy of thy brethren, take thy death, that I may receive thee again in mercy with thy brethren. While she was yet speaking these words, the young man said, Whom wait ye for? I will not obey the king's commandment, but I will obey the commandment of the law that was given unto our fathers by Moses. And thou that hast been the author of all mischief against the Hebrews shalt not escape the hands of God. For we suffer because of our sins, and yet though the living Lord be angry with us a little while for our chastening and correction, yet shall he be at one again with his servants. But thou, O godless man, and of all other most wicked, be not lifted up without a cause, nor puffed up with uncertain hopes, lifting up thy hand against the servants of God. for thou hast not yet escaped the judgments of almighty god who seeth all things for our brethren who have now suffered a short pain are dead under god's covenant of everlasting life but thou through the judgment of god shalt receive just punishment for thy pride but i as my brethren offer up my body and life through the laws of our fathers beseeching god that he would speedily be merciful unto our nation and that thou by torments and plagues mayest confess that he alone is god and that in me and my brethren the wrath of the Almighty, which is justly brought upon all our nation, may cease.

Then the king, being in a rage, handed him worse than all the rest, and took it grievously that he was mocked. So this man died undefiled, and put his whole trust in the Lord. So not only did they not care after seeing the others die before them, but his mother, their mother even, exhorted them to do it, because they understood. that there's more to this life and or there's more after this life so the next category is separate ourselves from Babylon Joe Smith in history of the church said when I contemplate upon all things that have been manifested I am aware that I ought not to murmur and do not murmur only in this that those who are innocent are compelled to suffer for the iniquities of the guilty And I cannot account for this only on this wise, that the saying of the Savior has not been strictly observed. If thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out and cast it off from thee. Or if thy right arm offend thee, cut it off and cast it from thee.

Now the fact is, if any of the members of our body is disordered, then the rest of our body will be affected with it, and then all are brought into bondage together. And then another apocryphal book called Ecclesiasticus. He says, who will pity a charmer that is bitten with a serpent or any such as come nigh wild beasts? So one that goeth to a sinner and is defiled with him in his sins, who will pity? He that treacherous pit shall be defiled therewith. And he that hath fellowship with a proud man shall be like unto him. And then in 2 Nephi, he says, behold all you that kindle fire that compass yourselves about with spark. Walk in the light of your fire and in the sparks which you have kindled. This shall you have of my hand, ye shall lie down in sorrow. So he's saying, if you surround yourself with dangerous fire, he is not going to have mercy on you. And another way to separate from Babylon is to stop worshipping idols. Isaiah describes idols as workmanship of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made. And Nephi says, Wherefore do not spend money for that which is of no worth, nor your labor for that which cannot satisfy. And how often do we spend money on things that we don't need, such as televisions and Big Macs?

Joseph described hell, saying, And God hath decreed that all who will not obey his voice shall not escape the damnation of hell. What is the damnation of hell to go with that society who have not obeyed his commands? Third category I'd like to go over is being free from ignorance. Joseph Smith's In the History of the Church, Volume 4, A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge. For if he does not get knowledge, he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world, as evil spirits will have more knowledge and consequently more power than many men who are on the earth. hence it needs revelation to assist us and give us knowledge of the things of god dnc 95 they who are not chosen have sinned a very grievous sin in that they are walking in darkness at noonday meaning they are walking around in ignorance when there is much light around them dnc 191 31 it is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance And then in the Times and Seasons, Joseph Smith says, If a man learns nothing more than to eat, drink, and sleep, he does not comprehend any of the designs of God. The beast comprehends the same things. Knowledge saves a man, and in the world of spirits, no man can be exalted but by knowledge. So long as a man will not give heed to the commandments, he must abide without salvation. If a man has knowledge, he can be saved, although if he has been guilty of great sins, he will be punished for them. But when he consents to obey the gospel, whether here or in the world of spirits, he is saved. It says again, This is the punishment of the wicked, their doubt, anxiety, and suspense causing weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth. In knowledge there is power. God has more power than all other beings because he has greater knowledge. And how often do we hear people not wanting to know about something because they don't want to face the consequences of it?

And that is another thing. Once we gain knowledge, we have to live by it. Second Nephi, he says, but to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God. Joseph Smith in History of the Church, Volume 2, we take the sacred writings into our hands and admit that they were given by direct inspiration for the good of man. We believe that God condescended to speak from the heavens and declare his will concerning the human family, to give them just and holy laws, to regulate their conduct, and guide them in a direct way. that in due time he might take them to himself and make them joint heirs with his son. But when this fact is admitted that the immediate will of heaven is contained in the scriptures, are we not bound as rational creatures to live in accordance to all its precepts? Will the mere admission that this is the will of heaven ever benefit us if we do not comply with all its teachings? Do we not offer violence to the supreme intelligence of heaven when we admit the truth of its teachings and do not obey them? Do we not descend below our own knowledge and the better wisdom which heaven has endowed us with by such a course of conduct? Begging Nephi, but woe unto him that has the law given. Yea, that has all the commandments of God like unto us, and that transgresseth them, and that wasteth the days of his probation, for awful is his state. Are you unmuted, Carmen? Yes.

Yeah, just go ahead, yeah. About three slides ago, There was one word in there that, and it was at the bottom of the paragraph. This one? And it says about obeying, and the word is all. A-L-L. Let's see, can you get that? And it says about obeying all the commandments. All right. Oh, that's too far back. I thought it was close to the bottom. Maybe it wasn't, but is it here where it says obey all the commandments? I think it was back here. I don't know. That's okay. That's okay. It is such a small word consisting. Of only three letters. But it's something that. I think that we. Just kind of float by it. All it's teaching. There it is right. It's actually in the middle. Will the mere admission. That this is the will of heaven. Ever benefit us. If we do not comply. With all. It's teachings. And I think that's. Literally there. just glossed over at times because we can say, oh yeah, I'm doing really good. I haven't killed anybody yet. So I've perfected myself in that respect there. And I don't make it a habit to lie or do all those other things. But there are so many commandments that are not in the 10 commandments. that have been given to us in this dispensation. And that little three-letter word is probably more important than any other word there, and that is all.

And I am very grateful that this is given to me personally to get me further along to where I really want to go. to be, that I may have the Lord's confidence. It's that word, all. Just a thought. Okay, I'm muting myself, I think. Thank you. So, the last one I wanted to go over is being concerned for future generations. John Taylor in Journal of Discourse is 20. We do not want a posterity to grow up that will be ignorant, depraved, corrupt, and fallen, that will depart from every principle of right, but one that will be intelligent and wise, possessing literary and scientific attainments, and a knowledge of everything that is good, praiseworthy, and intellectual and beneficial in the world, and become acquainted with the earth on which we stand and the elements of which it is composed, and by which we are surrounded, and know how to control them and manage them. and how to put to the best use everything that comes within our reach. And above all other things, teach our children the fear of God. In Volume 1 he says, We do not want outside folks to teach our children, do we? I think not. We do not want them to teach us how to get to heaven, do we? If we did, it would be of no use, for they do not know the way. Well then, we do not want them to tamper with the minds of our little ones.

You will see the day that Zion will be as far ahead of the outside world in everything pertaining to learning of every kind as we are today in regard to religious matters. You mark my words and write them down and see if they did not come to pass. We are not dependent upon them, but we are upon the Lord. We did not get our priesthood nor our information in regard to his law from them. It came from God. The world professed to know a little about what they call science, literature, and the arts. Where did they get their knowledge of these things from? And what is it they really do know? They know something about the laws of nature. Who made those laws? God made them, and he knows how to govern them. And it is by his almighty power that they are governed. Volume 24, he says, Whatever you do, be choice in your selection of teachers. We do not want infidels to mold the minds of our children. They are a precious charge bestowed upon us by the Lord. and we cannot be too careful in rearing and training them. We need to pay more attention to educational matters and do all we can to procure the services of competent teachers. Some people say we cannot afford to pay them. You cannot afford not to pay them. You cannot afford not to employ them.

We want our children to grow up intelligent and to walk abreast with the peoples of any nation. God expects us to do it, and therefore I call attention to this matter. And let our children be taught by our friends and not our enemies. Latter-day Saints, will you send your children to be taught of people who would teach them enmity to their fathers and mothers, and who would sow in their young hearts the seed of enmity to the principles of religious liberty, men who, if they had the power, would destroy the altars of freedom that the fathers of this country fought for. We do not want our children to be instructed by persons whose mission among us is to endeavor to instill into their young hearts enmity to the gospel of the Son of God. as revealed by him through his servant Joseph Smith. We have men quite as capable to teach as they are. We stand on a platform as elevated as theirs, and a great deal more so. And by and by we expect to be as far ahead of them in science, art, and literature, and everything calculated to a noble and exalted people and a nation, as we are now ahead of them in regard to religious matters. But as to their religious matters, you may wrap up the whole of them in a thimble and put it in your vest pocket and hardly know it was there.

Any ten-year-old boy of ours who could not meet any of their ministers on matters of religion, I should consider very ill -informed. I would say nowadays almost no one in the LDS church could argue on anyone of religion, let alone a ten-year-old boy. Well, it is for us to keep the commandments, to train up our children in the fear of God, to live unto God, and I will risk the balance. Amen. So, I think these are four very crucial things. We all need to be working on them. And I'm not saying I have completed all of them. I don't think I've completed a single one. But these are very important. In Isaiah 59, he says, In 2 Peter, he says, There shall come in the last days scoffers walking after their own lusts and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. But beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is long-suffering to usward. not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. So the Lord has not come because we have not come to repentance. there where righteousness dwells when we are swallowed up in the will of him who has called us when we enjoy the peace and the smiles of our father in heaven the things of his spirit and all the blessings we are capacitated to receive and improve upon then are we in zion that is zion what will prove the opposite hearkening and giving way to evil nothing else will And when Jesus came to the Americas, he said, And blessed are ye when men shall revile you and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake. Verily, verily, I say unto you, I give unto you to be the salt of the earth.

But if the salt shall lose its savor, wherewith shall the earth be salted? The salt shall thenceforth be good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. But I don't want to just be saying do all these things. immediately because that would be almost impossible i'm saying we need to learn line upon line precept upon precept as the lord continues to tell us and i think that's the end of it concluding remarks or anything um be good be good okay that's awesome So thank you so much, Moses. Even to this day, when I give presentations, I'm still really nervous. And I remember when I was his age, trying to speak in front of people, stuttering a lot. I had my notes in my pocket and trying to pull it out. And so I just really appreciate the effort that Moses put into this because it was a presentation that he put together on his own and shows four key areas that are really important for us all. that we are all working on if we want a free society and that we can promote to others if they want to be part of a free society the things that they need to be a part of uh to be uh to to be building to be actively engaged in building a free society and so that that price that god expects of us as we see through all of that those examples of um following correct principle no matter what and we can see you know that those it there are circumstances where we're blessed you know we're protected from the consequences, and there are times where we are, you know, that we can be seen to be suffering physically now for an eternal reward later that we have to have faith in and be able to follow those correct principles no matter what.

So I'd like to open it up for discussion. Any comments, questions, thoughts on the principles that Moses covered tonight? So we'll put it, now we'll get the unmuting, and yeah, Mark, go ahead. Yes, obeying God's laws, all of God's laws is referenced here. It's important that we realize the term you just used, principles, is very important. There are laws that are derived from God's laws, but they're consistent in principle. For example, Congress passes a socialist bill like Social Security. can see it as charity but it's not it's theft and god made clear the the principle that theft is wrong so it's really important we uh only derive from god's laws via principle and and and also authority be sure that whoever's making the law they have the authority to do so uh a godly authority yeah thank you mark anybody else want to chime in This is Mark again. Originally, the topic for tonight, well, this is still the topic, is morality. I think it's really important that people realize what morality is. I mean, there's a difference. Some people use ethics and morality, the terms synonymous to each other. They're really a little different.

But for argument's sake here, morality is fluid. It changes through from one. people to another where ethics are not to do that but getting back to the point i want to make morality is a code of values to guide man's choices and actions so your presentation started out with talking about those martyrs those martyrs showed value um valor by uncompromisingly uh living the code of value values of god's laws and i think it's really important to realize what what's going on in the world today certainly in america and that is men less and less people have values and and as what directs them is demagogic appeals the demagogue emotions and if you don't have a when you have uh nature has uh pours a vacuum when there's a vacuum of adherence and uh to guide uh to uh to values a code of values then what will move in is uh things like emotions demagogic appeals um disinformation uh a deceit uh so it there's so much that's lost if we don't even hey we have a code of values of course what we're talking about are godly values tonight because there's also ungodly values uh and and one last point on that uh on the k-dollar radio show she also often refers to it it's just that only conservatives or republicans or principle and actually in america today we're living uh the the what i call i'll call the leftist the status collectivist uh marxist they are more principle because they're more true to their values of theft of charity and so forth and the others are less so there sometimes they embrace liberty and sometimes they embrace tyranny so it's really important that we understand the importance of code of values and adhere to it and understand the right code of value godly law yeah yeah unfortunately there's too many people that are just they're dedicated to whatever makes life comfortable and so they'll they'll move and sway from you know one idea to another just to avoid controversy or avoid trouble yeah Well, some of the values that they hear, too, it's really obvious. It's hedonism. Yeah.

And nihilism, to some extent. Narcissism. But a lot of times, it's just the putting the finger in the wind. Whatever the democracy, whatever the pride says we need to be doing. Yep. Okay. Joyce, and then Samantha and Dan. Yeah, that was just a really good reminder about, you know, do I really do what I say? Because I want to die for my country and for the gospel and for Jesus Christ. And yet I will watch a show I shouldn't, let's say. And nobody's even torturing me. And I'm just really looking at myself tonight. that's important right because these things are inseparable i think that's something that uh moses laid out today uh very well is that there we can't say that we want to we shouldn't say that these are separate you know the the the principles of liberty the the principles of christ and the gospel those should all be intertwined and thought of as the same exact thing yeah samantha or dan yeah it's me yeah so yeah earlier on Moses, you're talking about how, and you quoted Joseph Smith, how we can't be saved in ignorance. And I don't, this is something that's hard, right? Because nobody thinks they're ignorant.

Like maybe some people, you know, admit, oh, I'm a ditz or whatever. But most people think that they're pretty well versed on what's going on. No one wants to admit that they're ignorant. So what do you guys find is the best way to, lovingly or helpfully point out or just encourage people to kind of confront some ignorant thoughts or just where they just lack knowledge is there a way I know it can depend on the person but are there tried and true ways to kind of help people kind of overcome this and be willing to look at it most do you have any thoughts um not willing to admit that you're ignorant is a form of pride. So, I don't know. Overcome that pride. Yeah, Mark, you got your hand raised. Do you have a comment on that? Well, first of all, what we just pointed out, it's a sin and it can lead to damnation. So that should be a motivator. But this is something little children must be taught. Taught that when you make an error, acknowledge it. And to not acknowledge that is a horrible denial of reality. It's a horrible way to go through life denying error. So we have to get that message across and accept it. And how many billions of examples can we give? Two and two is not six, it's two. The wall behind you there, Moses, exists. We have to use reality and a child.

Whether they're 68 years old or they're three or four years old, we've got to get that message across. It is the right thing to acknowledge error as it is the right thing to acknowledge goodness. And as Moses points out, the pride issue is, you know, if somebody has that pride where they're not willing to recognize their ignorance, there's not a whole lot we can do. And so with me, I'll just give an example. And we talked about this the other day, Samantha. I was at a birthday party. side conversation and somebody they were talking about how you know the the great things that trump and that rfk were doing to bring health you know things back and help freedom back and and i'm just you know sitting there i don't want to be the guy that poops into everybody's punch balls i don't be crass but right i don't be like actually like always just correcting everybody and so i kind of like you know i just let them have their conversation and and then somebody asked me they're like well what do you think and i was just like you know just I don't think you want to hear what I have. And they're like, no, no, no. And so I explained them.

And so they're like, wow, I'd never. And so I just went through, you know, some key points that perhaps they hadn't heard before to help them recognize, you know, hey, maybe I, that is information that clearly, if we know something that's like maybe interesting, that they're like, oh, I clearly didn't know that. And so clearly because of that, there's things that I can learn still. And so. maybe you can point in a direction where I can learn more. And so I think, you know, the way that, A, the person has to be willing. If they're not willing, there's nothing we can say or do. It's just the way it is. And then make sure that we're doing it in a way that's loving and not snobbish or condescending would be my thoughts. We've got lots of hands. Can I comment on that just quickly? One is we need to value people acknowledging. their heirs. And so when they do that, we need to respond in a way to show them that that was an honorable thing you just did. And also, of course, model it too for them.

Joyce and then Rod. I love your illustration there. You story told. the about what happened to you and that is exactly what i've studied over the years about how to convert people to funeral liberty because i tell stories and that really and also about my faith too like nobody's offended when i tell them a story about what even this past week i was Asking the Lord, no, last week, to help me pray always because I didn't really know what that was and I wanted to experience that. And I had an amazing week communing with the Lord and building my relationship with him. And so that's just an illustration that maybe people would find not offensive and compelling. Yeah, Rod. Well, I wanted to address Samantha's question directly. In order to be able to address those things with people, we personally have to be seeking knowledge because that gives you opportunities to share things. A lot of the time, I mean, we acknowledge that we're not the ones that are the source of wisdom, right? There's so many people out there who were, though, Benjamin Franklin and all these others who just filled with wisdom. what was his name saint george tucker and people like that right just amazing stuff that they wrote and they thought about and when you study these things and the spirit testifies that they're true you see that wisdom you can share that stuff with others and they're not feeling like um personally confronted or insulted by you acting like you're better than them because they didn't come from you came from somebody else, number one.

And so it's a little, you're just kind of passing along, like, here's something I learned, right? But also, again, just the fact that you are seeking knowledge, then it fills you with those answers that you can share with people when it comes up. Yeah. I think being self-deprecating sometimes when it's appropriate is helpful as well, right? That going back to recognizing, hey, I'm not, you know, the arbiter of all wisdom and truth myself. And then kind of maybe point out something that you did that was, you know. something that to help break down that you're not just claiming to be the know-it-all um yeah samantha yeah that's i was thinking about that i appreciate everybody's two cents on that because i was thinking about what really impacts me and has helped me is to be around people that i know are principled and a lot of times these people that i admire will say something like you know i'm i have a long way to go on this. And they, and they, they show their humility, even though I know they're like tons better than me and actually better than most people around. But when they say that, and when, and when you model that, I think the modeling humility and, and showing that you don't always know everything. And there's things that you obviously, and Moses did that.

Like, I'm, I'm not perfect at this, but the point is no one is, but none of us are Christ, but we're still supposed to lift each other up and, and help, you know, motivate each other to do better. So I think when you, like you're saying the self-deprecation, I think when you are sincerely humble in your desire to know better and do better and admit it, like in some areas, I don't quite know that yet, but I'm, you know, I'm looking into it. And I think that's really valuable because if people think you're a know-it-all, it really, you kind of tune them out. But if they know that you're humble and seeking like you are, then you can relate. And it's more inspiring, I think. Yeah, for sure. Appreciate that question. Mark, you got your hand up? Yes. Ego, humility, pride, they are all relegated to the trash heap if you value knowledge enough. The big problem is not adequate value of knowledge. if you adequately value knowledge then it makes logical sense that you're willing to debate you're willing to search out the knowledge you're willing to have it stand up to logical analysis you're willing to stand up to godly principles this is a you know academia this is what used to go on it doesn't go on to the extent it should should be today is that we seek out knowledge for the sake of knowledge uh and and if you value enough you you will of course put aside your uh view and and seek out what's true using logic and and uh and and moral principles as a guide what i see a lot of people do these days we're not really at an intellectual age now a post intellectual age where they jump to conclusions without having a logical basis for it that they this is extremely important that we not accept that If you have an assertion, you've got to make a logical argument to it.

So it's our standards of holding knowledge high and that process is necessary to determine what is reality, what is knowledge is really important. Thank you. Brittany, yeah, go ahead. Okay. Oh, sorry. Brittany, then Linda. Go ahead. Okay. Okay. I was just going to kind of bring it back. to when I think it was Carmen that brought up obeying all the gospel teachings or whatever, we might not know what all of those teachings are. I think we have to kind of remember that everybody is learning all of that still. So we're all going to make mistakes in those things every day. We're not going to be perfect yet. And Jared made a really good point. We were just talking about it real quickly. we're all still trying to get out of Babylon. And we need to know how to do that. And by learning and gaining all this knowledge and becoming more knowledgeable about those things in the gospel and in the world around us and in our liberties and what's been taken from us and just learning, that's how we're doing it.

And we have to just keep being diligent in that reminder of constant learning and constant growing and that we're going to get better and we're going to be better because of it. And that's going to just come in time. I'm a super impatient person. And so for me, I'm just hoping like, oh, it's just going to happen right away because I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. But it doesn't. We all have step backs. We all have days where we just don't feel like doing everything that we're supposed to be doing. And that's okay. We have to be reminded that there's a group of us here. We all have the same end goals. We all have the same values and morals that we're trying to look for and be about. And I think that uplifting and knowing that we have people next to us that are doing it with us just kind of helps along that journey. I think that it also kind of reminds us that if we're still in this process of learning, it's going to be easier to talk to others. just like Rod said, like the more knowledge you have, the easier it is to have these conversations. It's easier for me to get up in front of my classroom and admit to them that, yeah, I don't know everything about this particular topic, but that's okay.

I'm learning with you. And it makes me more human to a class of students or a group of soccer athletes that we're trying to teach. Like I'm not perfect, but I'm trying to get there. You know, like I think that that's good for all of us at this point in our lives. on this journey together like knowing that we're not perfect absolutely i love what moses pointed out and reminded us of of that that you know precept upon precept right one one thing upon another and that's something that i've noticed in my own life is that when i've learned something and then i've tried to apply it and tried to like figure out okay how do i do that thing now then the lord actually blesses with like okay new information how to do things better and so it's it's always when we when we tried to learn something, not for the sake of learning, but for the sake of doing, as Moses pointed out as well, putting those two things together always helps that slope. So, Linda, and then we'll go back to Mark. Linda? Okay. Thank you.

I just want to say thank you, Moses, for sharing what you did tonight. You really impacted me with a story that I had never heard before and had never thought to the end of that situation if I were in it. And that was the story about the three boys and then them turning after the mother was watching all of this and her son was watching it. And then to turn to her and for her to support her son in being willing to give his life, even under those hideous circumstances. And that just really got me right to my very heart and soul. And I thought, oh. having never heard it like that before, it threw a whole new light and it makes me really have to do some deep contemplation and evaluation. And thank you for sharing that. That was awesome. It was horrible, but it was awesome. Mark, go ahead. First point, Moses, you answered the question, not that you were asking, in your presentation on concern for future generations, while your father introduced you to the non-dare call of conspiracy.

Concerned about future generations, in his case, his own offspring. But what is really also important in acquiring knowledge is having the means to do so. you know certain knowledge is pretty easy uh to acquire like there's a grass yard in front of your house and so forth but other knowledge requires more tools uh logic is one of the most important of all and and most people just give up on logic or don't adequately understand the laws of logic but also a scientific method is of value when you're reviewing a scientific statement, see if it's valid or not. So at least knowing the rudimentary elements of the scientific method is really important. So we have to, we just can't, just reflecting on things is not adequate. We have to have the skills and certain type of knowledge before we can determine what is and what is not, is knowledge. Okay, thank you. We're out of time. We're going to go ahead and close up and then we're going to do open forum. But just want to remind everybody again to pick up the new book. And I've encouraged everybody to please pick up five copies and distribute them.

Make sure you use the promo code MEMBER to get your discount to be able to make that a little bit easier for you. But that is going to be something we can hopefully all do that will make a big impact in making sure that the book gets out, that the message gets out, and so that we can start to apply these things and have more people live up to these principles that we're trying to build. into society. So thank you all. Let's have a closing prayer and then we'll go ahead and have the open forum. Linda Stoll, will you say the closing prayer for us? Sure. Thanks. Yeah.

Our dear Heavenly Fathers, we can before you this night, we want to thank you with gratitude in our hearts for the things that we have learned tonight and for the discussions that we've been able to share. At this time, we ask that you bless us that we may take these things in our heart and that we may strive to teach the things that we are learning and that we might be successful in searching out those who are interested and want knowledge and who have to also have the courage to follow through with the things that we learn. We're so grateful for all of those who have shared with us tonight and who have done research. are willing to help and teach and guide and discuss. These things we pray for in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.