Articles \ Dr. Bonta Reveals the Occult Truth Behind the New World Order

Dr. Bonta Reveals the Occult Truth Behind the New World Order

Posted by Ben McClintock, Wednesday, 13 May 2026.

TRANSCRIPT

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It's an error to assume that the conspirators are somehow superhuman. That they're... that they never... and I get frustrated sometimes. Some people have this kind of defeatist attitude. They say, "Well, no matter what we do, they're always going to be three steps ahead." "They're always playing four-dimensional chess and this kind of thing." They're human, just like us. I mean, obviously they maybe consort with otherworldly elements, shall we say? [Music] All right. We have another... we've had you on several times. Thank you so much, Dr. Bonta from the New American Magazine.

I am really excited. In our last interview, we talked about bringing you on for this new issue that you guys have put together with the New American. I'm just going to put it on the screen real quick. This new issue of the New American. And it's a very special issue. And you guys have done it before where in the past you had a special issue. I don't know if you want to have your copy of your issue. I have a copy right here. This is the one that came out in 1996, 30 years ago in I think September or October.

So we're not quite to the 30th anniversary, but we're close. A rounding error, but we'll say 30 years ago. And it went through several reprints up through about 1998, sold upwards of 700,000 copies. It was our second best-selling issue ever. I think the first was the Towards a Police State issue, which came in the wake of the whole the Waco thing. But this was our second. And as you mentioned, we were in a discussion before we started the recording. This actually has a distinction, as far as I know, of being the only New American that's appeared in a movie.

It was actually used as a prop for the Mel Gibson and Julia Roberts vehicle in the late '90s called Conspiracy Theory. It and several other issues of the New American. This was the most conspicuous one. If you watch the early scenes establishing shots of Gibson's apartment in the early scene, it pans past and you can see this issue, this magazine on the wall or on a shelf or something like that. So, yeah, so it attracted a lot of notoriety. And the thing is that 30 years have passed. It's a lot of water over the dam.

And a couple of things have happened. Number one, the way that the – I'm jumping a bit ahead, but just to kind of lay the foundation. The way that the conspiracy operates in some respects has mutated. And so we need to – there are some new things that really we weren't maybe aware of or there weren't a thing back 30 years ago. Obviously, the political contours of the world have changed also and economic contours. And then also alongside of that, we ourselves have learned more about this topic. It's a very – There's always more to learn. I'm amazed.

Yeah, I mean it's a very difficult, arcane, complicated topic. When the John Birch Society first started in the late 1950s, the perspective, at least for a short time from Robert Welch on down, was kind of – it was a communist conspiracy. Right. End of story. And then by the 1960s, it became apparent to Welch and others that communism was being used by something else, that it was only part of the picture. Tragedy and hope really helped to bring that to light.

Tragedy and hope, sure, and the naked capitalists and so forth, books like that that talked about the material from tragedy and hope. So that was interesting. So by the 1990s, we were able to characterize the conspiracy as a conspiracy for global political control and that was maybe seated in organizations like – well, the United Nations above all else, but also in organizations like the Council on Foreign Relations and the Royal Institute of International Affairs across the pond and Chatham House in London and others, the Club of Rome and so forth.

But there was this clear – this international network, the Bilderberg Association, the Trilateral Commission, all of these which are essentially, at least by an appearance, are political. And so that was the main function. So in this issue, there's article after article, most of which have aged very well, that describe in lavish detail the modus operandi of the political arm of the conspiracy. But it turns out there's more to it than that. And even then, I mean, we understood that there was an occult dimension to it as well, a spiritual dimension, if you will.

And there is reference made to that in the issue 30 years ago. But the newer issue, we do focus more on that as well. So – Well, I hope we can help the distribution of the previous issue. I hope we can help to get that because exposing the conspiracy is one of the key aspects we have to do to be able to have victory and restore lost liberty and have adherence to the Constitution. We have to understand why we're in the position we're in. So I am just tickled pink and grateful that you guys have put this together. Yeah, well, we're happy to, and we're very excited about it.

Yeah, I mean I've got a copy of that here too, a very dramatic image. We failed it. It really captures kind of what the image has to say. So it's thicker than a usual New American. Some things it has, for example, fold out and – I hate to say this, but a centerfold, the New American style, right? That's what this is. This is our centerfold, okay? And it has – it's sort of a chart of the influence of the CFR and other malign international institutions. So that's there, and that's essentially carried over and adapted from the original version.

But here, for instance, an article written by yours truly on a topic we did not cover as much 30 years ago, somewhat surprisingly, which is the financial aspects of the conspiracy. And then let's see if I can find – of course, technology is a big deal. I hate to toot my own horn, but here's another one that I wrote. Yeah, this is one about – deals with the history of the conspiracy and writ large, and deals with some people that we really have not covered before, the likes of John Dee and Karl von Eckhardshausen and names like this who are very, very significant if you understand what esotericism and hermeticism are and the role that they play in this.

But if you don't know about that, then they won't be as familiar as say – oh, I don't know, Adam Weishaupt, the founder of the Illuminati, or obviously Karl Marx, one of the major founders of the Marxist movement, so of communism. So yeah, it's interesting. And this isn't the final word either, Ben. I mean there's more to cover to be sure. You could have a 26-volume set probably and not cover everything. Well, yeah, I mean – and one of the things that we've been hand-wringing over since this issue came out, oh, we should have covered this and that and the other thing, but this issue itself is, what, 96 pages long, so it's considerably longer than a typical issue of The New American to begin with, a lot more material.

And we've created an ancillary website called exposingconspiracy.com which we've begun to populate with articles. Some articles are hard to come by. For example, an article I wrote way back in 1998, my first ever article for The New American which was an expose of the cult of Thuggee in India, which is a classic case of exposure of conspiracy, and that article was not online. We don't generally have New American stuff online that's more than 20 years old. And so we had to dig it up and reconstitute it, but it looks very nice. So it's there and various other things. I was actually thinking about that article recently.

I wanted to get a copy of it. Yeah, it's right to go to look under, I think, history on exposingconspiracy.com and it will come right up, and all of the images we managed to capture as well from that article. So it looks pretty good. So bit by bit, our hope is to build that website into the one-stop shop, go-to site online for all things conspiracy, and I stress we're talking about real conspiracy. We're talking about shape-shifting reptilians and all the weird stuff. This isn't conspiracy theory.

This is conspiracy facts. Right, and so of necessity, we are going to be cautious. This is a topic that needs to be researched, and like any other, you can't just make wild claims out of thin air. It has to be backed up, and so that's what we try to do. The reality of conspiracy for anyone who studies history in any depth is, I think, impossible to deny, but there's something rooted deep in the DNA of most normal people that rebels against the idea that so much evil could be the consequence of deliberation, malice of forethought, and careful planning by clandestine group or groups of individuals.

And to me, some people that I've talked to make that the fact that we face a conspiracy to them is demotivating, but to me, I think we need to understand it in the right perspective that it's actually motivating because of all of these things. If we subscribe to the accidental theory of history as opposed to the conspiracy fact model of history, it would be much more, to me, demoralizing because that means all of this stuff is happening by accident. We're all just a bunch of idiots that don't know how to do anything right, and we just happen to be accidentally over and over again destroying our liberty and that no matter who we elect, the Constitution just keeps on being ignored, and we just can't figure it out.

But the fact that we have an arsonist starting these fires says we can go after that. We can expose that, and we can stop it, and we can actually do something to restore liberty. Well, yeah, and I mean there are some things do happen by accident. There are genuine black swan events. There are such things as laws of human behavior and incentives and so forth that cause people to incentivize people to act in certain ways. So it's certainly true that that is a contributing factor, but it's not the only factor.

A lot of times the way political conspirators operate is they take advantage of a situation that occurred. A good crisis is going to waste. Exactly. So when something crops up, maybe a natural disaster or a genuine pandemic, pandemics are a real thing. They have happened, and when they happen, as with if you look at the history of the Black Death, it was politicized too back in the day and resulted in a complete overturning of the world that was. I mean the Black Death was the episode that brought to an end the high Middle Ages phase of Western civilization and gave rise to the early modern period and ultimately, of course, the Renaissance.

In fact, several people who produced the Renaissance, Petrarch in particular, as well as Dante, survived. They actually lived through that event and survived it and kind of were motivated. So, yeah, so I mean natural things do happen. We're not saying that everything that occurs is because somebody behind the scenes is adjusting and recalibrating and so forth. You don't want to describe that. You and I know that human beings have moral agency. We have the ability to make choices.

And so the power of even the subtlest and best-funded political conspiracy is going to be limited. But it's fatuous to suppose, as so many people do when they think of it, if they think of it at all, that on the one hand, conspiracies are endemic to the underworld, to the demimonde of the mafia and Latin American gangs and whatever. We sort of take it for granted that those are criminal conspiracies, and we have laws in the books for prosecuting the activities of sane, anti-racketeering laws, all this type of thing. So we assume that bad people who are criminals, so styled, are going to act conspiratorially.

But for some reason, it does not occur to us that malefactors in the political and financial realms are apt to do the same. And yet those realms are just as -- tend to attract psychopath and sociopathic-type personalities in at least the same proportion as the criminal underground, the mafia, or what have you, perhaps more so. So people like that also, many of them are very subtle, and in their subtlety, they tend to want to combine, combine their interests and form conspiracies and so forth and so on. So it would seem to be elemental. Right now I'm researching an article for a topic that I've long wanted to write on, which is the Sicilian Vespers, an event that occurred back in the 1200s at the time of the Crusades.

And as the name implies, it was centered on the island of Sicily, which because of its location in the geographical center of the Mediterranean world, was always a hotbed of intrigue because it was a power -- the number one power chip for anyone who would -- whether Roman or Ottoman or somebody else who would control the Mediterranean, Sicily was key. And so when you have something like that, when you have a focus of political interest, then you have a concentration of power and inevitably the intrigue that goes along with it. So Sicily, which is not coincidentally also the origin of Cosa Nostra, the mafia, has always been honeycombed with secret societies. And back in the 1200s, a very ambitious French monarch named Charles d'Anjou took over Sicily, in effect, and established himself as the hegemon of the lower Italian peninsula and the greater Mediterranean.

And this was regarded as an intolerable affront to the authority of Navarre in the western Mediterranean and Byzantium, the Byzantine Empire, in the eastern Mediterranean. And so the two sovereigns of those two states, the Emperor Palaeologus in Constantinople and whatever the name of the king of Navarre at that time was, colluded together and said, "We have to do something to destroy the French stranglehold." And so they sent agents to Sicily who got in with the secret societies there, the network secret societies, and hatched a plan, which was on the Vespers, I guess on Easter, Vespers, a certain worship service, evening worship service. When the Vesper bell rang, all the people who belonged to the secret society all across the island would unsheathe their daggers and kill every French person they could find. And this is what happened, in effect.

The bells rang and the people rose up, but it wasn't spontaneous. It was all planned. And the one definitive book in the English language by the great historian Stephen Runciman, who's one of my heroes, called the Sicilian Vespers, describes in lavish detail how it happened, how this whole event was planned. And the result, of course, was Charles d'Anjou himself escaped, but his kingdom was destroyed. They slaughtered up to as many as 15,000 Frenchmen in a single night who were living in Sicily, and completely broke the power of Charles d'Anjou. And the Pope was happy, and the emperor of Byzantium was happy, and the king of Navarre was happy because the status quo, anti, was restored. But the point being that this whole event was orchestrated by using the structure of Sicilian secret societies, and the mafia to this day claim that they got their start.

They traced their pedigree back to the La Vespera di Cicilia. They're very, very proud of that aspect of their heritage. So now if you go to the Wikipedia article in the Sicilian Vespers, nary a mention of that. And they portray it as a spontaneous uprising of agreed peasants or whatever it is. They have references to Runciman's book, but there's no mention whatsoever of the conspiratorial aspect of this event in the Wikipedia article. So if you were to read that, you would be the impression that this was just another peasant uprising where they happened to kill a bunch of people in authority and achieved a certain result entirely by accident. Wow. That's how people just don't like to think about conspiracy.

Right. Well, and it's just the reality, the idea that two or more people have never gathered together to do something evil is preposterous. But we have to recognize also looking at the history, because it's not like we've-- especially in your magazine, you haven't just said, "Oh, this is the idea, and this is what we think happened." You go through and you show the quotes of them saying, "This is what we're doing." They're admitting it, like David Rockefeller's famous quote in his biography where people claim that we're a part of a conspiracy to create a one-world government. If that's the charge, I stand guilty and I'm proud of it. I'm paraphrasing, of course, but these guys admit to what they're doing all the time, and so it's well-sourced, and this is the fact of history that these things do happen.

And that's what I want to focus on is your article. I have the digital subscription of the magazine, and your article, "Roots of the Conspiracy," was really good because it shows how this is something that goes back a long time. I believe, and I've talked about here, is that this is literally a satanic conspiracy, and then it goes back to the very beginning of time. And this article lays out even some of the admissions of those involved that they believe that their conspiracy goes back to the very beginning of time as well. And a part of your article, it starts off talking about the Mithras. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that of Rome, but tell us about that, the conspiracy in Rome of the Mithras. Well, yeah, the Mithraic cult.

I wrote an article on that circa 2008, 2010 for the New American, which eventually is going to find its way to the exposingconspiracy.com website as well. But that's a really interesting topic because the cult of Mithras, who was apparently the same as the Persian god Mithra, crops up in Rome sometime in the beginning of our era. But according to Plutarch and others who wrote about it, it actually was first introduced into Roman society at the time of Pompey the Great. Pompey went on his famous crusade against the, we call it crusade. It wasn't really a crusade. Excuse me a second. I've got to close two windows that keep beeping.

OK, there we go. They're gone. Anyway, to against the Cilician pirates. So the Cilician pirates were a kind of like a secret band of robbers, as it were, who were located in the fastness of Cilicia on the coast of Asia Minor. And it was a separate kingdom, but it was apparently like many kingdoms that were outliers in the greater Persian sphere of influence. You know, they were fire worshippers and all this sort of thing. But in any case, the Cilician pirates had become bolder and bolder. And one day they launched a raid on the Roman port city that corresponded down the Tiber River from Rome. That was basically Rome's port and just came in one day. It was sort of like the Roman 9/11. The pirate ships appeared.

They came roaring in, launched this massive raid, killed a bunch of people, spoiled the city and took off again. And so Rome, in response, put the rising star Pompey, Pompeius Magnus, who was for Caesar's great rivals as well, in charge of their suppression. So he went out with plenary power to do just that. And he went out and attacked their strongholds and finally destroyed them or ultimately invited them to become part of the Roman Empire on condition that they renounce their piratical ways. And at that point, according to Plutarch, they introduced the mysteries of Mithra into Roman society. Now, there were a number of myths. You know, the way that society was configured in the pagan era before the arrival of Christianity or Judaism, right, was that you had, of course, people worship many different gods. With each god was associated a cult. And so that cult was often family-based. So you worshipped the god who was regarded as the tutelary deity of your family, your clan, and so forth. This is how society was organized in Greece and all across Asia.

To this day, it's kind of that way under Hinduism in India, although the names of the gods are different. But then in addition to the outer forms associated with cultic worship, you know, the sacrifices and all this type of thing, there was always a mystery, so-called mystery religion associated with it that took the form of an inner religion that only – which was normally – you were inducted into it. You were sworn to secrecy, and in exchange for that, you know, the higher mysteries of the religion and the universe were revealed to you. And in the case of ancient Greece, the most prominent of these was probably the mysteries of Eleusis, which corresponded to the goddess of the harvest, Demeter. In ancient Egypt, it was Isis that was probably the most prominent, the cult of Isis. And there were various others. At one time, Bacchus, the god of inebriation and youth, also had a mystery cult associated with him. So the Mithraic mysteries were associated with this god, Mithra. Now, Mithra is interesting. The word Mithra in Persian and Mitra in Sanskrit literally means "friend." And Mithra has many epithets in Persian, but one of them is – they call him "Vouroo Gauyaoiti" in Avestan, which means "of the broad grazing lands." What does that mean? It means that in primeval times, when the ancestors of the Persian people who worshiped Mithra were just nomadic herdsmen roaming about the steppes of Central Asia, as our Indo-European forebearers all supposedly did, they had no landed property, no system of laws and courts the way we do now.

So the only way that they could affect social transactions was by swearing an oath, a blood oath, in effect. That's how things were done. And Mithra, hence, was the god of oaths and covenants amongst the ancient Persians. And so, small surprise, with the passage of time, it also became the tutelary deity of this apparently oath-bound secret society that penetrates Rome. Apparently, the first emperor to whom it was intentionally grabbed was Nero. Nero went out, and one of his conquests was the kingdom of Armenia. And as was the custom, he took the Armenian king into captivity and displayed him in what they called a triumphal parade in Rome. And the king, instead of being humiliated – he wasn't killed or anything like that, but he was dressed in ceremonial manacles and prayed for the public – he approached the emperor and he said to Nero, "You need to be acquainted with my god, Mithras. You look to me in all of your grandeur and splendor, and the fact that you vanquished me so easily, you are the embodiment of Mithras." And Nero, depraved that he was, listened to that.

So it is believed that Nero may have been the first Roman emperor to have joined this secret society, but he certainly wasn't the last. So all the way through, probably the emperor Constantine was involved, certainly before his conversion to Christianity, but a number of others. Heliogabalus, or Elagabalus as he's sometimes called, Commodus, who's also one of the more depraved Roman emperors, were both known to be openly professed to worship Mithras. But the last such was so-called Julian, Julian the Apostate, and he was the emperor who tried to basically make Mithraism the state religion of Rome, after Constantine's time, after Christianity had already been instituted. He tried to wipe it out and restore the old pagan ways. At the center of it all was his own Mithraic faith, including the people who had inducted him into the mysteries of Mithra. He ultimately died at a young age while waging war in Persia, ironically. And after his death, as many Mithras as they could find were rounded up and gotten rid of.

But Mithraism, we've actually learned quite a bit about them. They met in secret conventicles underground, places called Mithraea, which is literally like Cave of Mithra, and they had this very particular, I mean, there's an illustration of the so-called Taractonus Mithra, as the term archaeologists use, it means Mithra slaying the bull, in effect. And it's not exactly sure what that means. And there are these various other, there's a raven hovering in the air and a scorpion underneath, grabbing at the bull's nether regions. And there are two little dudes, one holding a torch pointing up and the other one holding a torch pointing down, whose names are Kautas and Kautapatas. And it's supposed that they probably represent the radical dualism inherent in Persian philosophy and religion, right? And which is a characteristic trait, by the way, of many hermetic and occult religious systems, even up to the day.

This idea that good and bad are just functionally equivalent, radically opposite, but there's nothing more to it than that. That's a very common belief among occultists, and it was certainly part of the Mithraic belief. It was also, and this is also critical, it was also an organization that had, the first of which we know, that had initiatory grades. Probably other mystery religions did too, but we don't know nearly as much about the Eleusinian mysteries, for example, in ancient Greece. But we do because so many Mithraia have been uncovered, and also because early Christian writers, some of the patristic writers, wrote about Mithraism and equated it with the Antichrist. So a lot of the imagery in the Book of Revelation, the branding on the forehead, they actually did that. So a lot of it seems to have been inspired by Mithraic imagery. So there were seven grades of initiation, starting with, I think, Miles, which was soldier, and then the highest one was, let me think, was it Heliodromos, Sunrunner, I don't remember what it was, but the seventh was the highest.

And so it had a classic, what we would now regard as the classic structure of a secret society. But then, supposedly, it was completely repressed and destroyed. But the interesting thing is, Ben, throughout the Middle Ages and into the modern era, we see this periodic recrudescence of secret societies, or they were called heresies in the Middle Ages, and groups like the the Paulicians and then the Bogomils and the Albigensians and so forth, who were anti-Christian heresies, structured like secret societies that had many beliefs quite similar to those of the Mithras. And even in the modern day, of course, the Illuminism of the Illuminati is well known to be a gradational, whether it still exists or not, I don't know. Some people believe that it does. But again, it was a gradational organization. And obviously Mason... So is the gradational of the Mithras, is it similar to the Illuminati's where the lower levels didn't know about the higher levels?

Or they know about the higher levels? As far as we can tell. Were they trying to work their way up to it? Or they just didn't know? I guess. The thing that's so interesting about the Mithras, I mean, Mithraism was probably a lot more successful than at least the Bavarian stage of Illuminism was, because at its apogee, it had captured pretty much everybody from all the emperors, all the great military generals, all of the great bankers in Rome were all part of the Mithras. It was the ultimate brotherhood, you know, to be... But it was still not open. It was still a secret to the mass of society. Well, I mean, no, I think people knew that they existed just in the same way that people know about... And I don't want to give the wrong impression, but people know about the Masons, right?

I don't necessarily think the Masons are malign, at least in the American form, as far as you can tell. But structurally, people know the Masons, but then they don't necessarily know what the Masons actually believe. And so that was, you know, and then the purpose of the gradations certainly seems to have been, you know, you cast a broad net recruiting people, but of course, not everybody is going to be temperamentally suited for the aims of the organization, which appears to have been, as such things always are, to perpetuate the power of the few at the expense of the many. And, of course, to wage war on Christianity, on true religion, which is what Mithraism did. And then its successor, probably its first major... Well, I mean, there were actually, I mean, you know, there were some early Christian heresies. Marcion was probably the best known heresiarch among the, you know, in the first few centuries of Christianity.

And he was, I think, also from Mesopotamia somewhere, a Mesopotamian Christian, at a certain juncture, he created a new system, which he claimed was Christianity, was actually, seems to have been a dualist, you know, sort of a semi-secret, you know, rival church to Christianity. So this happened a lot. And then after him, along, you know, the Politicians did the same thing and were remarkably successful for a time before being stamped out. And then along came the Bogomils, again, inspired clearly by the Persian system, the ancient religion of the Magi, and starting in the Bulgarian Empire and then spreading into Byzantium and then eventually, you know, reappearing in Western Europe as the Albigensian or Cathars later on. So, you know, so it's a commonality. And you can look at these and say, well, OK, well, maybe it's just by accident that these people keep hitting on the same doctrines, the same way of doing things.

Or maybe there's a continuity, an underground continuity, you know, people that, and that's certainly, that's what people who believe in the so-called hermetic or esoteric tradition believe, that there is a worldwide network of elites who are first and foremost, a cult elite. This is what, you know, Helena Blavatsky, the founder of Theosophical Society, talked about a lot. Alistair Crowley talked about, Eliphas Levy, pretty much any of the major figures in early modern or modern occultism all believe this. And so, you know, they talk about, they call them by different names, Ascended Masters, and, you know, Society of the Elect or whatever, but they have the same belief that these people have always existed and that they're the real movers and shakers in the affairs of men. Most of them are not necessarily conspicuous or famous, but they're influential nevertheless. And so, you know, it's, so we still have a lot to learn because, I mean, you know, one of the things that we have to do, in my opinion, as students of conspiratorial history, is have the humility to admit that we don't necessarily know all the answers.

So people, the first question, well, okay, if there's a conspiracy, who are they? Tell me, name names. And it's not, you know, describe the structure in detail. Well, if I could do that, it would be a pretty happy conspiracy, right? So that's an issue. Yeah. Well, and it's interesting how we don't realize a lot of the words that we use today, going back to your article on the thuggy cult, that's the origins, if I understand it correctly, of the word thug. And, you know, and we call somebody a thug and in here you're talking about the Bogomils and how that was the, because of their, the conspiracy itself, there, we see what the Bohemian Grove, for example, is a very, it's a conspiracy full of debauchery. And so the term buggery, which is not very common today, but was a very common term for those involved in sodomite relationships.

And so it's interesting that, you know, that we have these words that go back to these conspiracy organizations, and we don't even know the origins of it. And you bring that out in your article about the term buggery. Yes, yes. And I mean, that people in the UK still know what that word means. And so if you tell someone in the UK to bug off, in the United States, we've just kind of taken that word. It just, it doesn't mean anything, but it's actually very profane in its original meaning. Because it comes from this word buggery, which comes to the French word bougle, and bougle in French means Bulgarian. OK. And the reason is that the Bogomil group, which also came to encompass what was called the Cathars of the Albigensians, which were particularly prominent in Piedmont, Italy and southern France, that they were believed to have come originally, as I mentioned, from Bulgaria, because Bulgaria at that, you know, a thousand years ago was kind of the bridge between east and west.

It had existed on the border between the Byzantine Empire and the fastnesses of Asia, you know, the Orient. And their fire worship in the old Persian sense was still widely practiced. Although the third emperor, the third of the first Bulgarian emperors converted to Christianity. And there was this amazing scene where he, I mean, his grandfather had been the scourge of the Byzantines. You know, he at one point, you know, the Battle of Pliska defeated the Byzantine emperor and killed him, cut off his head, took his skull and made it into a drinking goblet. This actually happened. So he was an absolute barbarian. And but his grandson converted to Christianity, but then decided, well, I'm going to make war in the Byzantium anyway. That's the thing that we do. And, you know, it's just a thing. And he shows up and, you know, he lays, he invests the city of Constantinople and shows up with his men.

And the emperor at the time, who was a very effective emperor, even if he was a bit of a pretender, Romanus Lecaponis, takes a small group of men, walks out the gates of the city, goes walking right up to the enemy camp and accosts the Bulgarian emperor. And he says, how dare you? You're supposed to be a Christian. You Christians don't behave this way. And he completely shamed him, completely fearless. And the Bulgarian guy says, oh, you know, you're right. And so he so he left. So there was this weird relationship between the Bulgarian half the time acted like Asiatic barbarians, but they were sort of becoming Christian. Right. And in that twilight period, it was a fertile period, I think, for producing, you know, the sort of secret organizations that were, you know, one part pagan and one part, you know, well, we're going to try to to to adapt to Christianity, but we're going to try to subvert it as well. And so, you know, a few generations later, the Byzantine Emperor Alexius Komnenos is receiving at his throne the head of the Bogomil heresy and having this debate with him. And it was recorded by his daughter, Anna Komnena. And it's really interesting because it's clear that he believes in these same the dualist heresy. And he has the same attitudes and ideas of the votaries of Mithras and so forth of hundreds and hundreds of years before.

But by this time, the Bogomils were bidding fair to unseat the Orthodox Church as the top ecclesiastical authority in the empire. So ultimately, you know, they killed him and all the rest of them and so forth. Then it just morphed into something in Western Europe, particularly in Bosnia. Interestingly enough, Catharism was there, lasted for several hundred years in Bosnia, really put down roots. So this is the nature of society in Europe. You can't understand European or Asiatic history without understanding the role that these secret esoteric religions and movements and conspiracies, you know, for lack of a better word, play in the shaping of history. And, you know, we see them now. We sort of assume we live in an age of reason now. So it doesn't make any sense. People look at the Nazis and all they see are a bunch of technocrats who like to kill Jews and invade other countries. But Nazism was so much more than that. It started as an occult secret society, the Tule Gazelschaft. And it was it had many of that same, which was inspired, by the way, by the doctrines of theosophy. I'm not sure that, you know, Helena Blavatsky would have approved of the genocidal aspect of Nazism, but that whole, you know, Aryan supremacy stuff and the use of the swastika, which is just an inverted swastika means literally in Sanskrit, su-astika. It means a sign of goodness. And it's a good and oriented clockwise.

It is a it's like a sign of good luck and good fortune in Hinduism has been for thousands of years. Well, Nazis turned it backwards, you know, as they would. But a lot of that stuff, you know, the whole Aryan mythology, that's a thing in not just in the very name of Iran is cognate with with Aryan. Right. The Aryans were the name that the ancient Indo-Europeans that populated the Iranian plateau and South Asia called themselves. And it's cognate with the word era, which is the word for Ireland, by the way. So it's a very, very ancient name. And that's what so that so that was that was, you know, any Hitler went on record saying, well, you know, people who look at Nazism and see it as a political movement don't understand. And he was right about that. He was right. It was definitely a lot more than that. And, you know, but if you don't know what theosophy is and some of these other things that are very familiar to people who, you know, are into the occult and so forth, you wouldn't recognize it. You just see Nazi and all the banners and so forth. Well, that's just their symbol. And that's what they do. But you see them as a you see the superficiality. Right. So but Nazism was very much a conspiratorial movement. It was a conspiracy that bid fair to take over Europe for a while. You know, the Epstein files, they bring Jeffrey Epstein himself brings up the fact that his family and the Rothschilds funded Hitler.

Like that's one of the emails that he sends. And so it's interesting that we have these people that are known as being a part of the conspiracy or funding this guy in the occult. Yeah, well, here's the funny thing, Ben. I mean, we look at these ultra rich, ultra powerful elites who publicly profess, you know, to be atheists or agnostics who don't care about religion, who seem to to to the in our eyes to be very, very secular individuals. Right. I think we're looking at we're deceiving ourselves because there is deep, deep in all of us a desire to worship, a desire to to sacralize the world in some sense, to vest it with with spirituality. And that includes dark spirituality. Right. And so it's a fact, I mean, an interesting comment that was made famously by I think it's in my financial article about J.P. Morgan, who was well known for when I was in the history article where he he consulted a very, very prominent astrologer who was a descendant of President John Adams, in point of fact. Anyway, and he made the comment, he said, he said something like, you know, all bankers use astrologers or words to that effect. Well, that's a strange thing to say. I thought bankers were the boring, drab, rational and maybe, you know, your local banker. But we're not talking about those guys. We're talking about more megalomaniacal types who run the money, huge money center banks who love to, you know, globetrot and try to plan the finances of the world. Those those guys. There's a spirituality associated with them, but it's not the way people like you and I would define spirituality. You know, and the same is true of the political elites, a lot of them. So, so the question is what kind of spirituality is with with with Nazism. We had a particularly poignant example of this, that clearly the Nazis, they believed in something besides just the political slogans and the rah rah rah and all the other things. You know, there was a there were these dark motives for what they were doing. And so, you know, this is something that we tried to bring out in this latest issue of the New American to some extent. I mean, I mentioned I talked about John Dee. Most people have never heard of John Dee unless they're experts on Elizabethan England. John Dee was the archetype of every wizard you've ever seen in the silver screen, you know, typically has the aquiline features and the hook nose and the glittering penetrating eyes like like Gandalf in, you know, portrayed by Christopher Lee and so forth.

Well, that's John Dee. We have lots of pictures and we know what he looked like. And he was a brilliant individual, multi talented, as many of these people are many of them are very, you know, very, very talented with languages, very apt for scholarship. John Dee was a like a typical Renaissance man, he could do a lot of stuff. Well, he was a brilliant individual unquestionably lived in the time of Elizabeth the first. And he also happened to practice black magic. He was really into black magic and there's ample documentation of that. He was not just in, you know, a casual reader of hermetic literature and stuff. He practiced what he preached, along with his, his friend Edward Kelly, they would they would actually they tried to raise the spirits of dead people and all kinds of stuff that are associated with the darkest forms of magic and witchcraft and necromancy and so forth. He also was a privy counselor of Queen Elizabeth. He had, he was a friend of Queen Elizabeth, he's one of those powerful people in the world. Okay. And at one point, he got it into his head. This was would have been right about the time that that England decided to, to take control of its first overseas possession, which was the island of Newfoundland, back in the late 1500s. And John Dee said, you know, we should do more of this. We should find a way to that that England with her enlightened ways, her civilized system of law and so forth, should rule the entire world. And that did make it into the Wikipedia article, by the way, he is considered to be the guy who thunk up the British Empire, he is literally the person who first thought of the British Empire and he told the Queen this he said this, this should be our, our mission statement going forward is we need to, we need to start creating, we need to imitate what the Spanish are doing already, only do it better. Because we, we are not they are the ones who have the ways of civilization. So he was the one that put the bug in Queen Elizabeth first year, of course, that was transmitted that policy by the time she died and James, the first became king, that that had become a matter of natural, natural, national policy. So small surprise several centuries later, along comes Cecil Rhodes and says, oh, we have this great thing called the British Empire. That needs to be the edifice on which we erect a world government. You know, and that's where the whole Milner's kindergarten and ultimately the Council on Foreign Relations, all that stuff came from. But the point is that initially it was inspired by, by an occultist.

And if John Dee was the one who articulated the Queen, you can guarantee the idea, it probably wasn't his idea alone, it was probably something that had been cooked up by persons unknown, and then found its way into the corridors of power and became policy. You know, so one of the most important events of the last 500 years was basically the brainchild of a necromancer, namely the British Empire. Yeah. That's something you're not going to get in your high school history, but it's a fact. Which would make it more interesting. I would have probably done a lot better in school if this kind of stuff was, was, was covered in there. I wanted to go to the 17th. Go ahead. I mean, there are other figures like this. I mean, you know, people make, make a big deal over Alistair Crowley, you know, in the Hermetic Society of the Golden Dawn. And, you know, Crowley, I don't know how influential Crowley was at the political level, but there are certainly, you know, occultists, you know, Alice Bailey, very prolific writer and a very respectable scholar after her fashion. She wrote, you know, I don't know how many dozens of books. But her, her brainchild was the Lucis Trust, which, by the way, has never been called the Lucifer Trust, but they did have a publishing, their publishing arm for a while was called the Lucifer Publishing Company. So that gives you an idea of where they were coming from. But her perspective, as is the case with most occultists, was that Lucifer is misunderstood. After all, they say his name means lightbringer. So how bad can he be? All right.

So, but the Lucis Trust is very influential at the United Nations. It has offices, an office suite on the United Nations grounds. So, again, people look at the United Nations and they say, oh, well, it's this, it's a bunch of politicians, you know, obloviating about this policy and that. And so, well, yeah, but, but where is it, you know, what's its ultimate motivation? What is this driving people? And it turns out that there's this, again, this, this, this occult dimension. And we don't know as much about it as we probably should. Yeah. They've got their own prayer room at the UN. They do. Yeah. Yeah. Although I gather that it's no longer open for the public. You can't just waltz in there and take pictures as you once could. It's kind of it's gotten such a malign reputation that they try to keep people out. So in 1793, I'm not even going to try to butcher the name, but you quote the book, The Cloud Upon the Sanctuary, where it's. Yep. You can read online, by the way. Oh, wow. He says, "The society of the elect, which has continued from the first day of creation to the present time, its members, it is true, are scattered all over the world, but they have always been united in spirit, in the spirit and in one truth."

And that basically it says that they, that they existed from the beginning of time and that they'll continue to exist till the end of it. And so they're saying themselves that this is the continuous conspiracy. Yeah. Well, Karl von Eckartshusen, he is usually considered to be a quote unquote, Christian mystic. OK. And so here's an interesting thing that one finds when one reads through, as I have done some perusal of the writings of people like John Dee and Elphaz Levy and Helena Blavatsky, who's the one I personally find the most interesting, is I've actually visited the headquarters of the Theosophical Society in India. And so they're fascinating people. But the thing that's interesting is most of them profess to be very favorable towards Christianity and profess to be believers in God and so forth. They just see occultism and spiritualism as being a way of, you know, a higher understanding or something like that. And Eckartshusen was one of these people because he was considered to be a quote unquote, Christian mystic. If you look up his brief dossier in Wikipedia, you'll see that he's thusly characterized. And he is. But that book, Cloud Upon the Sanctuary, was is almost unknown today.

But, you know, again, I think it's it was you can find it online, read the whole thing. It's really interesting. But it goes on and on about Christ this and Christ that. It sounds very Christian looking superficially until you realize this same guy, Eckartshusen, also authored a bunch of books on magic and the occult. So he you know, he didn't see any any. And John Dee was the same way. I mean, all these people at some levels. Well, yes, I'm a Christian and I believe in Christ. But I think Christ was like the prince of magicians or something. You know, they have something like that. And so this is a really interesting feature is that you find that they're not you know, a lot of them don't profess to be. Oh, they don't say I'm anti Christ or this time. They're not. They're a lot more subtle. And Eckartshusen was that that book, The Cloud Upon the Sanctuary, was the toast of the salons of Europe at the turn of the 18th century, late 1700s, early 1800s. It's since faded into obscurity. But it was read by a woman named Barbara von Crudner, who imbibed, who was persuaded of the truth that there was the society of elect that she, you know, wanted to belong to.

And I don't know whether she succeeded in that. But the fact is, she became in her own right a fairly well-known Christian mystic, so to speak. And she showed up on the doorstep of the Russian czar, Alexander, in his temporary residence in Germany after he invaded France. It was his army that put down the last, the final phase of the Napoleon at France. And so and then withdrew. I mean, he was he tried to be he was a contradictory figure, but he was very pious and he wanted to find the truth. He wanted to do the right thing. And so one stormy night, this woman shows up and says, I've got a message for you from God. And he takes her in and she says, I want you to understand. And she lays out this doctrine of the secret inner church that came from Eckartshusen. She basically tells him the same thing, explains it to him. And she said, this organization has chosen you, if you're willing to do something very important. And that is you need to do something that's going to to begin the process of ushering in this new age of enlightenment and peace. That's going to culminate in a time when there will be no more wars and no more nations. And so she she plants it in the seed and in the negotiations at that Vienna, the conference of Vienna that followed the end of the Napoleonic War, when they're trying to decide what to do with, you know, now that Napoleon was was was done with.

Alexander comes up with these ideas. Well, I think we should have a new kind of organization. It should be an international organization that should have the power to put down wars, to make peace, to adjudicate disputes among countries. And he proposed to call it the Holy Alliance. OK, and so the Holy Alliance became a thing. Now, the the the England didn't subscribe to it. They started a rival alliance. But the kingdoms of Prussia and Austria-Hungary and, of course, Russia, those three empires all did. And in the next couple of decades, the Holy Alliance actually used what we would now call peacekeeping troops to put down rebellions like the Neapolitan uprising against the monarch. It was like a Republican type uprising, small or Republican. Anyway, the Holy Alliance is usually believed to be the starting point of multilateralism, modern multilateralism, that culminated a century later in the creation of the League of Nations, which was the template on which the United Nations was was created. So, again, you look at something and say, well, this is just a political thing.

This and that happened. But but the but the the original inspiration comes from this obscure, little known occult source that is largely, you know, the authors are hidden from our view, but we know they're there. But every now and then they pop up their heads, you know, and you can you can see these things and see how they're they managed to wield power behind the scenes. So Barbara von Crudner is like Karl von Eckartshausen and so forth. Very, very, very enigmatic figures. You know, we know they're real. They really lived. They really existed. And they really did do these things. But who they were answerable to, what they did. I mean, von Crudner, subsequent to that, she set up a secret society in Paris, had a lot of a lot of very important people, including, I think, the the Austrian equivalent secretary of state for attendance. And what she was doing was that they were they were carrying on seances and all kinds of other, you know, weird quasi religious ceremonies. So she didn't stop with with what she did with the emperor. She went on and founded the secret occult organization in Paris that briefly attracted many of the nobility and, you know, the movers and shakers of Europe. So it's just but nobody knows this stuff, Ben. It's not that it's hidden. If you dig far enough, there is information on it. But because of this, this reflexive, you know, reluctance that people have to acknowledge the reality of this sort of conspiratorial activity, you know, particularly in the highest realms of politics and finance and so forth. People just refuse to see it, you know, for what it is. Right. Right.

So another organization that you mentioned in your article is is is the famous one that most people have heard of is the Bavarian Illuminati. But you bring out some stuff that I didn't know about. And I think a lot of folks don't know about is that there was another guy besides Adam Weishaupt, who was likely the co-founder with him. Tell us about that guy. Well, for one thing, the aforementioned Karl von Eckartshausen was it was an early member. So he was involved with the Illuminati in person and probably he would maybe he was the real guy. We don't know for sure. But, you know, he was probably deeper than Weishaupt himself. And along with him was Baron von Knigge, who was a minor nobleman. And he was a very effective recruiter. Knigge was the guy who went out and got people into the organization. He had a very strong personality. He had a lot of cred, as we would say now, because he was a nobleman, although not one of any great consequence. But, you know, he apparently was quite a gifted orator. So he was probably the guy that really built up, you know, recruited a lot of a lot of people into the Illuminati. And again, there are some details also in in my colleague Alex Newman's article that I didn't go into the Illuminati in as much depth as he did, because I wanted to sort of show the larger tapestry. The Illuminati are regarded as the canonical case.

The official verdict of history is, well, they were short lived and they were put down by the 1790s. You know, they only last a few years. And once the Bavarian authorities found out what they were up to, that was it. But the reality is rather more nuanced. And you can see this, for example, in James Billington's book, Fire in the Minds of Men, which is another one of those classics. And again, this is a good one because Billington was Library of Congress, a librarian of Congress many years ago and a historian of considerable renown. And Fire in the Minds of Men is about the occult. In large measure, the occult aspects of the the revolutionary underground in Europe, and it does have a lot of information on the Illuminati, and it avers that many other arch conspirators who came right after, like Buonarroti, for example, and. Others of that ilk, Babouf, the people and people involved in his so-called Baboufian conspiracy and the very late revolutionary, revolutionary France right before the rise of Napoleon, all of them, credibly, were also, you know, Illuminists. They were part of of of Illuminism. And Mirabeau, who was one of the founding fathers, so to speak, of the French Revolution, was certainly certainly Illuminist. I think that's beyond beyond reasonable dispute. The question is, did the Illuminati per se survive?

After that, after they were ultimately repressed, or did they simply metastasize into these other organizations like the Carbonari in Italy and ultimately the League of the Just in France and Germany that became the communist conspiracy? And the Jacobins in France. Well, the Jacobins were part of the French Revolution, so the Jacobins were a movement of the French Revolution, whether they survived or not. Again, these are interesting questions. They were directly connected to the Illuminati, right? Yeah, most likely, sure. So, you know, I mean, there's some interesting things to consider. One is that the the symbol of the Illuminati, contrary to what most people believe, is not the the all-seeing eye. We do have it in the cover of the magazine, but that is not actually their their symbol. Their symbol was the owl. And what modern society uses an owl? Well, there's several, actually. You've got one out in Utah, of course, the owl and key.

But there's also, of course, the Bohemian Grove is the big one. And I don't know if that one's a, you know, and I'm sure it's initiatory, whether it's gradational or not, the way the Illuminati were, because they had seven gradations, just like the like the Mithraists. And so, but that's interesting. Maybe that's just happenstance because, well, the owl is the ancient symbol of Athena, you know, wisdom and the Greeks and so forth. But it is an interesting fact. And I, you know, at this point, Ben, I don't know if the Illuminati literally survived and are still out there meeting in a dark room somewhere. A lot of people make that claim. You can find websites that claim to be the website of the Illuminati. It's hard to know. I don't think they're doing that. Yeah. Personally, we can know that.

Yeah, we know that they have the same goals. You know, they operate very similarly. And so you can see the same influences amongst these organizations. As you point out in your article, I think it's very clear that the it'd be so much easier, right, if you could just go to conspiracy.com and you've got a list of all of the conspirators that are out there and all of the organizations. But if you look at their aims, their goals, the way they accomplish the things and the admissions that we have of their gradations and whatnot, there is, to me, too much similarity to say that there is a separation, that whether they change their names or not, they get caught, they have to start a new name. The fact is that this is a continual conspiracy and it and the same programs that they go back to, you know, ancient Rome are being implemented today to say that that's to say that they're totally unconnected seems unreasonable. Yeah, I mean, you know, so we don't know the exact contours of it, but it's very clear that we have either a single group at the helm or a small group of interlocking organizations that have similar aims. But no matter how you look at it, I mean, obviously, the mafia is not a unified conspiracy either. I mean, there's five different, you know, mafia families just in New York City, and they don't always agree with one another. But the mafia is routinely characterized as a conspiracy, singular, right? So, so that's, you know, a point to make. I mean, it's, I think it's, it's an error to assume that the conspirators are somehow superhuman, that they're, that they never, and I get frustrated sometimes, some people have this kind of fetus attitude. They say, well, no matter what we do, they're always gonna be three steps ahead. You know, they're always playing four dimensional chess, and this kind of thing. They're human, just like us.

I mean, obviously, they maybe consort with otherworldly elements, shall we say, you know, but, but, but, but they themselves are, you know, is a, I mean, Nazism was literal conspiracy, but I think the antipathy between, between Nazism, and let's say the British or the Russians was not, was not feigned. And you see this today in the political realm. People look at, for example, Putin, people in the West, and some of them like Tucker Carlson, consider Putin to be this great hero of civilization, because he dares to oppose the new world order. Well, he's opposed to the Western version of the new world order. He wants world order too, but along Russian lines, you know, I mean, you know, the people that he surrounds himself with are fully steeped in all this stuff, including the occult stuff. But it's recast in a kind of a Russian nationalist mold, and the same can be said mutatis mutandis of Xi Jinping in China, you know, but there, I mean, the antipathy among the different factions in this conspiracy is real, but that doesn't negate the reality, just like, you know, the, the antipathy between the Genovese and the Gambino families, maybe is real. You know, they go to war from time to time and it's real thing and people get killed and, you know, and they work together from time to time as well. But that doesn't mean that they're not, they don't have the same set of oaths, the same commitment to the same ends and all of that. And the fact that these incarnations of a satanic conspiracy have been defeated in the past should be the proof that we need to say that it is not, we shouldn't be defeatist, that this conspiracy that we face today can be destroyed if we understand it and we work to oppose it. That if we, the, the conspiracy against God and man depends on a defeatist attitude because that makes it so that they go unopposed. And so it's, they, they want us to believe that, but it's completely the fact that it's been defeated before says that we can defeat it now. And so just real quick before we wrap up, I wanted to get into the fact that- I just want to clarify one thing very quickly. Yeah, yeah.

We by ourselves can't defeat it. Sure. We require the aid of providence. God's help. And in my opinion, Ben, as long as the world will, shall last, I mean, as long as this world lasts in its current state, I think in some form we will have this, this enemy to contend with. But that doesn't mean it needs to be as puissant and as all encompassing as it is today. There have been times in history when these types have been driven underground into their bohemian warrens where they, where they belong and have not wielded the kind of influence that they have today. So that's, that's kind of what we're hoping for. And I think an important aspect that I want to get into just, just real, before we finish up, is the false opposition aspect of it. It's not, this isn't the Democrats, right?

This isn't the Republicans. Like with the Council on Foreign Relations, you have individuals like Dick Cheney, who was the vice president on the Republican side. You have Hillary Clinton talking about, you know, going to the Washington headquarters to, and she talked about this is the new mothership where she can, doesn't have to go as far to get instructions. That we, if we narrow it down to say, oh, that's just the people that are called leftist publicly, just the Democrats, then we put ourselves in a trap where we start to trust people that are pretending to be one thing, but there's something else. And so this, kind of talk to us about that, that aspect of the conspiracy, if you can. Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, I mean, there are people who are at different levels who are of buy-in, so to speak. And so there are, you know, I think speaking in broad brush terms, the people who are quote unquote at the apex, the most influential are the truly, you know, amoral people for whom, you know, who will say things, who believe that, you know, there's nothing out, there's no right and wrong, there's only power, all that sort of thing. That they're absolutely committed to that. And they harbor no illusions. Some of them are, I think, overt Satanists. And they aren't telling themselves that Satan is Lucifer, a good guy either. You know, they, they, they, they revel in their wickedness. They believe that being wicked and rebellion, rebellious is the natural state of the enlightened few. And so that, and then, then you have people who are the hangers on at various levels who contribute their, their time and their talents and their, and their perverse energies at whatever, wherever they're able to be. So a large group of these are people who have convinced themselves that they're working for the betterment of humanity, that their motives are pure. These are the so-called wokesters we find. That's the term we use now. We used to call them politically correct and before that other things.

But people who, just these, these, these insufferable left-wingers who believe that they are righteous and that the righteousness of their cause justifies anything that they do. They're fanatics. They're easily exploited. They are the, the useful idiots, I think is the memorable phrase that Stalin, it's attributed to Stalin. I don't know if that's true. And, and, and there's a large number of those at different levels. Then there are the venal politicians, some of whom are basically, you know, useful idiots who, who have found their way into the corridors of political power. And you know, many of their names, they're not, they're not secret. And they, they believe wholeheartedly in the cause. They're true believers as well. But alongside them, there's a group, maybe not quite so large, but of pusillanimous individuals who we like to call rhinos, who in effect, that's the current moniker anyway, who say in effect, well, you know, I don't really like the way things are going. But on the other hand, this is how things are. So I don't want to rock the boat and let's just make a deal and, and, and go along, get along and so forth and so on. Kind of, you know, I mean, the contrast between those two groups brings to mind the old, the line from Yeats' famous poem, The Second Coming, where he says, you know, the worst, excuse me, the best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity. Right. So you have that passionate intensity operating at various levels of, of, you know, informational levels. And then beyond them, beyond all these groups, well, I mean, there's, there are a couple of other groups. There are those who, for whom money is their god. And that are, you know, they're the ones that are out there happily manipulating the currency and, and running up the national debt and doing all that kind of thing. And, you know, they are, they're a different set altogether. And then there are the people at large and how do they break up? A large number of people are unwitting co-conspirators to the extent that they're willing to march and scream and yell and, and emit slogans or parrot slogans that effectively encapsulate the goals of what we sometimes style the radical left. But how radical it truly is, most of, most people have no clue. You know, they look at the, the rioters in the streets of Los Angeles and Minneapolis and they say, oh, that's what the radical left is about. Uh, no, no, it can get so much worse than that. Uh, you know, these people have such darkness in their souls. I mean, uh, maybe, uh, Pol Pot's Cambodia is a closer approximation. And even that probably falls short of the mark. Maybe a fictional dystopia like, uh, George Orwell's Oceania in 1984 is something along the lines of what they might, uh, might, might imagine and intend. But, you know, your average rank and file, you know, street agitator has no clue.

So, so that, those are some of the divisions. And then there are small, relatively small, and there are a large group of people who just want to do the right thing, who think that, you know, voting for the anointed member of their tribe every time is the way to succeed, but who are relatively low in information. And I don't mean to sound disparaging or elite or elitist or anything like that, but, but, you know, but a large part of the strategy of those people, uh, the, the insiders, as we used to call them, is to keep us as ignorant as possible. You know, so one of, one of the reasons that the Marxist recipe didn't succeed and needed to be superseded by something else, you know, the rest of the, uh, so-called cultural Marxist formula of, um, of Gramsci and the Frankfurt School and others, was that it turns out that in order to have a Marxist uprising of the proletariat, like what happened in China or, or Russia, you needed to have a large base of ignorant peasantry. And they didn't find that in France and the UK and the US and Canada and Australia and places like that. They, you know, especially here, there weren't enough ignorant people. So part of the task now at hand is to recreate that state of, of servile ignorance characteristic of the life of a serf, hence the road to serfdom, right? But it's, again, it's not something happening by accident. It's being, it's being encouraged. Ignorant masses are much more malleable, much more easily controlled. So, and, and these are, these are, are plangent facts. Everybody understands that.

Um, so I mean, Ben, the solution, you know, how do we beat this back? How do we, uh, restore the American Republican's pristinity and, and minimize as far as possible the influence of these malign actors and, uh, shake off their ascendancy over our political and financial affairs and our very civilization, our moral system? Well, education is a huge part of that, which is why we do what we do here. It's not the only thing. And sometimes education by itself does not avail. You know, you have to resort to more drastic means as the American founders found out, you know, they could admit pamphlets all they wanted, but at the end of the day, you know, the British were not swayed enough and they had to face steel with steel. And I hope it doesn't come to that, uh, to save our society and our liberties and our constitution here. But I won't, I also don't want to minimize the precariousness of our situation now, because this conspiracy has so successfully entrenched itself in all of the nerve centers of power in academia, at the elite universities, in the media and in entertainment, the sources of information that, that, that, that propagate the narratives that we, that we believe and the worldviews that we subscribe to. Obviously in politics and in finance and in business. So, you know, and even in religion within, within, within churches and so forth, their influences to be found, including to some degree within our own church, the church that you, the religion that you and I share, but also in, you know, in other churches. So, uh, it's, it's a, um, it's been remarkably successful. And if you subscribe to the fact that we're kind of in the end times, maybe that's not a surprising state of affairs, but, um, we know how this ends at a, at a time of his choosing, God is going to come and put a stop to all this nonsense. Right. And pass judgment on the children of men, but how we get from here to there is very much a matter of our own agency of the choices that we make individually. And as a people, whether we choose to do the reading, whether we choose virtuous conduct, you know, it's other major weapon, of course, is to, to degrade and debauch public and private virtue. And we've seen a lot of that because people be, you know, shorn of virtue are incapable as Edmund Burke observed so long ago are incapable of governing themselves. They require coercive outside authorities.

And, and so, so that's another thing, you know, you don't want to have a nation full of basically virtuous and I mean, perfect, not perfect people, but people who are virtuous enough to be self-reliant, to make good decisions, to keep the family together, to, to perpetuate sturdy institutions, you know, church, schools, civic organizations, so forth, basically to, to, to sustain Christian civilization. As it once was, you need to get rid of those people. And if you know, and the way to do that is simply to degrade morality to the point where people like that are no longer being produced. Right. So all of these factor into what needs to be done. And every single person who is concerned about it needs to first, you know, to educate themselves and concomitant with that, seek to be, seek to exemplify as far as possible that idea of a virtuous, virtuous citizen. Montesquieu observed long ago that the cardinal principle upon which all republics were predicated was virtue. Okay. Despotism, it's, it's fear and monarchy, it's honor, but for republic, you have to have virtue. Yeah. There's no substitute for that. Absolutely. I think, and a part of that virtue would go back to Luke and our duty to occupy until he comes. And a part of that occupation is to warn our neighbor. Once we've been warned about what's really going on so that we can work hard to, to make things better and to defeat the evil that is all around us. So I appreciate the new American magazine for daring to call it a conspiracy. And I hope that everybody within the sound of my voice will pick up copies of, of the magazine right here. And so that we can distribute it and help more people understand that. And so that they can then make more informed decisions and we can go on the offense. I think this is a great tool to go on the offense and to be able to promote righteousness by exposing the evil that is going on. So thank you for your article, Dr. Bonta, and thank you for the new American magazine. Is there anything else before we leave that you want to share or? Well, again, you know, just, this is an issue that's absolutely pivotal. It won't leave you wanting to whistle sound of music. It's not that type of thing. We do do articles about that too. We're not all about doom and despair around here. We try very hard to, to strike a balance because after all, there's much praiseworthy and good report and beautiful in this world of ours, including in the realm of politics and history and so forth. So we do have a lot of that, but in this issue, we center on the deadliest threat to our national survival. And it is absolutely incumbent on every patriot to read and to decide for themselves if they, if they, you know, agree that the evidence leads where we maintain that it leads.

But to be at minimum, at least to be aware that so many of these malign things that are happening that causes us to throw up our hands and in frustration and some cases despair are not happening by accident. They're being, they're being done by, by some very clever people with very particular goals in mind. And those goals are antithetical to the world of July 4th celebrations and backyard barbecues and a little league football, little league baseball games and, and college football and Saturday afternoon matinees and all the good things that not to mention church, church on Sunday. All those things that we kind of associate with the good life that the vast majority still of ordinary Americans want to live. That will all be done away if this, if this so-called new world order or brave new world comes to pass. We need to be frankly informed about it and not despair and not get, you know, succumb to negativity, but lift up our heads and say it's, it's a wonderful time to be alive. It's a privilege to live in a time when some of these, these things of darkness are being brought to light so that we can, we can appropriately address them and combat them. And hopefully in the process, improve upon our Republic and upon our civilization. Absolutely. Well, folks, you go to the new American.com to pick up your, your copies. I will put a link in the description of this video as well. You can just click right to it. Thank you again, Dr. Banza. I hope to see you soon. Great Ben. Thanks a lot.

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